PROPECIAHELP: Persistent Finasteride Propecia Proscar side effects info & discussion forum

Forum for men with PERSISTENT sexual, mental & physical side effects which CONTINUE DESPITE QUITTING Finasteride (Propecia, Proscar), a 5AR inhibitor drug for hair loss, prostate enlargement & prostate cancer.
It is currently Tue May 21, 2013 9:30 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:31 am
Posts: 1816
Age: 30
Drug: Propecia
Location: USA
Transcortin: corticosteriod-binding gobulin (CBG)

CBG is similar to SHBG in function but it focuses on corticosteroids cortisol, progesterone, aldosterone, & DOC. It's regulated by estrogen. I found a link between this and something called Pseudo Cushing's Syndrome.

Excess estrogen can cause a rise in CBG leading to an overall high number and effect, however free cortisol used for metabolism is too low. This is the same issue we have from a high overall testosterone or T3 value but too low free-testosterone or free-T3, the bio-available vs in-use amounts are at incorrect ratios. I believe this can play a factor in a number of our sides from Fin.

Has anyone researched this and is there a way to suppress it like SHBG?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cushing%27s_Syndrome

Quote:
Pseudo-cushing's syndrome
Elevated levels of total cortisol can also be due to estrogen found in oral contraceptive pills that contain a mixture of estrogen and progesterone. Estrogen can cause an increase of cortisol binding globulin and thereby cause the total cortisol level to be elevated. However, the total free cortisol, which is the active hormone in the body, as measured by a 24 hour urine collection for urinary free cortisol, is normal.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcortin

Quote:
Transcortin, also corticosteroid-binding globulin or CBG, is officially called serpin peptidase inhibitor, clade A (alpha-1 antiproteinase, antitrypsin), member 6. It is an alpha-globulin.

Binding

Transcortin binds several steroid hormones:
Cortisol. Approximately 75% of the cortisol in circulation is bound to this plasma protein. (The rest is bound to serum albumin.) The cortisol is thought to be biologically active only when it is not bound to transcortin.
Progesterone
Aldosterone
11-Deoxycorticosterone (DOC)

Production

Transcortin is produced by the liver and is regulated by estrogens. Therefore, plasma transcortin levels increase during pregnancy, and are decreased in cirrhosis.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:32 am 
Online

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:07 pm
Posts: 884
I think this would be good to further look at. Has any one tested for this.

I have low free cortisol via siliva and all the symptoms to match. I just got a blood cortisol test. I wonder how that will turn out. My body is showing high estrogen symptoms so I assume that it will be high.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:33 am
Posts: 1531
Age: 28
Drug: Propecia
Usage: 34 days
Location: Earth
I will do this next time im in the area of the lab.

$30 :D with a 4 week turnaround :( .


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:20 am 
Online

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:07 pm
Posts: 884
Interestingly when I took arimidex my back acne went away.

When I take isocourt my back acne goes away.

So this could suggestion that when I lower my estrogen I increase my free cortisol.

My siliva cortisol was low.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:07 am 
Online

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:07 pm
Posts: 884
Back from the doc ACTH 5.6 pmol/l(0-12) - cortisol 621nmol/l(70-650) So siliva cortisol low thought the day. Blood cortisol high = high levels of transcortin? I will test soon. Transcortin is stimulated by estrogen. When I took arimidex I recovered. I have highish rt3 (shows possible low cortisl), love handles(estrogen), High eosiniphils (low cortisol?), fatigue(low cortisl?) digestion issues(low cortisol?), panic attacks(low cortisol?)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:18 pm
Posts: 400
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
I have yet to find a way to supress SHBG....

Only thing is lower estrogen will eventually lower SHBG but how do you control it directly?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:11 pm 
Online

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:07 pm
Posts: 884
I thought some steroids lower SBHG?

Also upon looking at my tests my iron transferrin saturation is 65. top of the range is 45. This indicates hemochromotosis. My cousin has this so it could be in the family. It is a common problem in Caucasians.

I saw one paper that stated various hemocrological diseases resulted in high levels of transcortin. The only other thing that seems increase transcortin is estrogen.

Iron is a slow killer, I really need to get my iron down

It is also linked to low libido and impotence. : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/885326


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:28 am
Posts: 764
Age: 22
Drug: Propecia
Usage: 1 month
Started: 7- 0-2009
Stopped: 8- 0-2009
Location: N/A
vincentv wrote:
I thought some steroids lower SBHG?

Also upon looking at my tests my iron transferrin saturation is 65. top of the range is 45. This indicates hemochromotosis. My cousin has this so it could be in the family. It is a common problem in Caucasians.

I saw one paper that stated various hemocrological diseases resulted in high levels of transcortin. The only other thing that seems increase transcortin is estrogen.

Iron is a slow killer, I really need to get my iron down

It is also linked to low libido and impotence. : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/885326


did you get your iron levels checked and they were too high? can you tell me how high you were exactly or what the range was or something like that, just looking to get a feel for how high you were.

_________________
those who say it can not be done should not interrupt the people doing it


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:59 pm 
Online

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:07 pm
Posts: 884
Iron - 29.1 umol/L (5.0 - 30.0)
Transferrin * g/l 1.9 (2.0 - 3.2)
TBIC * 44 (47 - 70)
Saturation % 66 (10-45)
Ferritin 164 ug/L (30-300)

The saturation is the important number over 60. This indicates fairly severe iron overload.

Also something else that is concerning is my platelets have fallen below range.

148 (150-450) last year they were 152.

My bili Total has gone up a little 17 ( 4-20) was 15 last year

The only things I can find that increase transcortin are estrogen and hematological disorders.

I really hope my liver is not screwed?

Maybe a screwed up liver could explain higher estrogens and why arimidex fixed me for a few days?

I swear I am experiencing low cortisol symptoms. I got a doc to write a test for transcortin. I will do this in the next couple of days.

Something weird has been happening. I have been feeling aroused in dreams, this happens at the time where I get nocturnal wood. - My morning wood is no good.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:28 am
Posts: 764
Age: 22
Drug: Propecia
Usage: 1 month
Started: 7- 0-2009
Stopped: 8- 0-2009
Location: N/A
vincentv wrote:
Iron - 29.1 umol/L (5.0 - 30.0)
Transferrin * g/l 1.9 (2.0 - 3.2)
TBIC * 44 (47 - 70)
Saturation % 66 (10-45)
Ferritin 164 ug/L (30-300)

The saturation is the important number over 60. This indicates fairly severe iron overload.

Also something else that is concerning is my platelets have fallen below range.

148 (150-450) last year they were 152.

My bili Total has gone up a little 17 ( 4-20) was 15 last year

The only things I can find that increase transcortin are estrogen and hematological disorders.

I really hope my liver is not screwed?

Maybe a screwed up liver could explain higher estrogens and why arimidex fixed me for a few days?

I swear I am experiencing low cortisol symptoms. I got a doc to write a test for transcortin. I will do this in the next couple of days.

Something weird has been happening. I have been feeling aroused in dreams, this happens at the time where I get nocturnal wood. - My morning wood is no good.


http://www.medicinenet.com/iron_overload/page3.htm
Quote:
Iron deposits in the pituitary gland and testicles cause shrinkage of the testicles and impotence. Iron deposits in the pancreas cause a decrease in insulin production resulting in diabetes mellitus (please read the Diabetes Mellitus article). Iron deposits in the heart muscle can cause heart failure as well as abnormal heart rhythms. Iron accumulation in the liver causes scarring of the liver (cirrhosis) and an increased risk of developing liver cancer. For further information on the consequences of cirrhosis, please read the Cirrhosis article.


that's crazy, i knew there would be some kind of link with that. i posted in another thread i have been suspecting insulin resistance as contributing to our problem as well because of so many people's food intolerance and issues with sugar and other carbs. i'm going to try to get that iron test as well.. that could be a hint to another whole as to what is going on.

_________________
those who say it can not be done should not interrupt the people doing it


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:35 am 
Online

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:07 pm
Posts: 884
I think I posted the wrong link before but - http://www.mendeley.com/research/unexplained-high-transcortin-levels-in-patients-with-various-hematological-disorders-and-in-the-relatives-a-connection-between-these-high-transcortin-levels-and-hla-antigen-b12/

This talks about hematological disorders increasing transcortin.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:45 am 
Online

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:07 pm
Posts: 884
Yes I am reading a book on iron overload now. It is full of scientific references. Having too much iron in your tissues slowley destroys all your organs and kills you. Gives you cancer, heart disease cancer, diabeties, alzimers. It is very important to have your iron levels in optimal range for good health.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:28 am
Posts: 764
Age: 22
Drug: Propecia
Usage: 1 month
Started: 7- 0-2009
Stopped: 8- 0-2009
Location: N/A
vincentv wrote:
Yes I am reading a book on iron overload now. It is full of scientific references. Having too much iron in your tissues slowley destroys all your organs and kills you. Gives you cancer, heart disease cancer, diabeties, alzimers. It is very important to have your iron levels in optimal range for good health.


i see wow. i had no idea this was a part of the puzzle as well. have you considered this type of treatment I posted below?

http://www.medicinenet.com/iron_overload/page4.htm
Quote:
The most effective treatment for hemochromatosis is to reduce iron in the body by phlebotomy (withdrawal of blood from the arm veins). One unit of blood, which contains 250 mg of iron, usually is withdrawn every one to two weeks. Serum ferritin and transferrin saturation are checked every two to three months. Once ferritin levels are below 50 ng/ml and transferrin saturations are below 50%, the frequency of phlebotomies are reduced to every two to three months. When hemochromatosis is diagnosed early and is treated effectively, damage to the liver, heart, testicles, pancreas and joints can be prevented completely, and patients maintain normal health. In patients with established cirrhosis, effective treatment can improve the function of the heart, skin color, and diabetes; however, the cirrhosis is irreversible and the risk of developing liver cancer remains.

The benefits of therapeutic phlebotomy in hemochromatosis are as follows:

It prevents the development of liver cirrhosis and liver cancer if the disease is discovered and treated early.
It improves liver function partially in patients who have already developed advanced cirrhosis.
It improves and/or completely resolves symptoms of weakness, liver pain, joint pain, and fatigue.
It improves function of the heart in patients with mild and early heart disease.

_________________
those who say it can not be done should not interrupt the people doing it


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:13 am 
Online

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:07 pm
Posts: 884
Yes actually there is a study that shows people who regularly give blood half half the rate of heart disease.

Ip6 is a strong chelator of iron. It is what binds to iron in seeds and grains and ensure that they remain viable for hundreds of years despite containing a potent oxident. Ip6 is extracted from rice bran.

Actually progesterone is show to remove iron from some tissues this is one way they say it helps people with joint pain.

Here are some other things that reduce iron.

Blood letting
IP6 / phytic acid
milk thistle
Lactoferrin
rutin
Alphalipoic acid
Acetl l carnatine
Hesperidin
Quercitin + c 500mg
Curcumin
zinc 15mg
Magnesium
Tea
Grape seed extract
Ginko

I will reduce my iron to optimal levels and see how I fell. One thing that goes against liver damage is that they say transcortin levels reduce when liver damage is present.

It could have been worse. I am lucky to have been living in thailand for 5 years, so I have not been eating much red meat at all. Red meat has a type of iron that is very absorbable. This is probably why there is such a big link to meat consumption and death of all causes.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:20 pm
Posts: 277
Age: 25
Drug: Propecia
Location: Norway
martinM wrote:
CBG is similar to SHBG in function but it focuses on corticosteroids cortisol, progesterone, aldosterone, & DOC. It's regulated by estrogen.

(...)

Has anyone researched this and is there a way to suppress it like SHBG?

I don't know anything about transcortin, but if it's similar to SHBG - the same principle may be used to lower it. If it's linked to estrogen and raises along with it, you need to find a way to control the estrogen. Progesterone may be used for this, and since its one of the hormones that are involved with transcortin, you'll kill two birds with one stone. If you use a progesterone cream, most of the progesterone will be bound by transcortin, which consequently suppresses the transcortin level.

As for SHBG - all anabolic-androgen steroid suppresses the SHBG level. SHBG has strongest affinity for DHT, and since SHBG is linked to estrogen, and DHT is a strong estrogen antagonist, I recommend Andractim or Proviron to suppress the SHBG level.

_________________
- Prostate biopsy?
- Working TRT protocol found! (not my current treatment)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:29 am 
Online

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:07 pm
Posts: 884
Yes, I have found links to an increase in SBHG in people with liver problems. Also patients which have cirrosis also may also have low/high transcortin.

I am going to solve my iron overload problem first as this can cause hypothyroidism, hypogonadism, adrenal problems and many more things. Once my iron is at an optimal level I will reassess.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:31 am
Posts: 1816
Age: 30
Drug: Propecia
Location: USA
vincentv wrote:
Yes, I have found links to an increase in SBHG in people with liver problems. Also patients which have cirrosis also may also have low/high transcortin.


Please post the links/studies


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:04 am 
Online

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:07 pm
Posts: 884
http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/6503216

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC442083/pdf/jcinvest00451-0022.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1916151

Not sure about this one http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7182182


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:13 am 
Online

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:07 pm
Posts: 884
Interestingly, I had a coffee yesterday and my digestion seemed much better. Usually what comes out is unformed. This morning it was all well formed. Must be the boost in free cortisol.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:33 am
Posts: 1531
Age: 28
Drug: Propecia
Usage: 34 days
Location: Earth
bryce54 wrote:
vincentv wrote:
Yes I am reading a book on iron overload now. It is full of scientific references. Having too much iron in your tissues slowley destroys all your organs and kills you. Gives you cancer, heart disease cancer, diabeties, alzimers. It is very important to have your iron levels in optimal range for good health.


i see wow. i had no idea this was a part of the puzzle as well. have you considered this type of treatment I posted below?

http://www.medicinenet.com/iron_overload/page4.htm
Quote:
The most effective treatment for hemochromatosis is to reduce iron in the body by phlebotomy (withdrawal of blood from the arm veins). One unit of blood, which contains 250 mg of iron, usually is withdrawn every one to two weeks. Serum ferritin and transferrin saturation are checked every two to three months. Once ferritin levels are below 50 ng/ml and transferrin saturations are below 50%, the frequency of phlebotomies are reduced to every two to three months. When hemochromatosis is diagnosed early and is treated effectively, damage to the liver, heart, testicles, pancreas and joints can be prevented completely, and patients maintain normal health. In patients with established cirrhosis, effective treatment can improve the function of the heart, skin color, and diabetes; however, the cirrhosis is irreversible and the risk of developing liver cancer remains.

The benefits of therapeutic phlebotomy in hemochromatosis are as follows:

It prevents the development of liver cirrhosis and liver cancer if the disease is discovered and treated early.
It improves liver function partially in patients who have already developed advanced cirrhosis.
It improves and/or completely resolves symptoms of weakness, liver pain, joint pain, and fatigue.
It improves function of the heart in patients with mild and early heart disease.


Do you really trust a website that offers to tell you the result of spiders fighting?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

phpBB SEO