The following is from the old Yahoo Finasteride Side Effects group, posted by a user from the UK who took Testosterone Replacement Therapy + Proviron (DHT) to try and recover.
His last post was in 2006 and I have tried getting in touch with him since then to no avail, so do not know how he is doing today or if he is still on treatment.
I post the below for reference only.
My name is J.N and I am from England. I was one of the original guys
who helped to found this group back in 2003.
I have hidden away from you chaps as these forums were making me
crazy, and wanted to get myself better first.
I have suffered TOTAL ED and all the other symptoms; depression,
watery ejaculate etc etc, ...everything for 5 years after
discontinuing the drug in April 2001. Since then I have fought and
fought and fought and fought soo hard to get my life back.
Literally, the fight of my life. I am not exaggerating.
I think I am almost better!! I really think so.
My hormone profile was roughly like this
DHT 2.58 range 1.1 to 2.6 (high)
T was 29 range 9 to 32
Free T 79 range 40 to 160 (lower third despite high T!!)
SHBG 39 range 10 to 40. (High!)
E2 55 range 0 to 150
Nothing obvious stands out.
Over the last 5 years I have swallowed sooo many different pills;
arimidex, nolvadex, clomiphene, chinese stuff to name a few. I have
MY remedy below.
1. Testosterone 80 mgs a week and HCG 250iu twice a week (to keep
2. PROVIRON. Bloody proviron. To bind to my SHBG and free up my DHT.
I think my problem throughout ALL this was a high SHBG. Not out of
range, but 39 where the upper limit is 40. SHBG is binding loads of
my T thus placing my free T in lower third and, most importantly, as
SHBG has a 6 times higher affinity for DHT than T, it must be
binding LOADS of my DHT. But free DHT cannot be measured. DHT is the
main dude involved in erections. I literally must have had a really
low free DHT the last 5 years. I have lost literally NO hair. NO
hair. And I´m not taking ANYTHING!! CRAZY. Totally crazy.
Proviron is bloody great stuff.
I use HRT because proviron has a deleterious effect on natural T
production and I just wanted to eliminate T levels as being the
culprit throughout my ´getting better´ process. I am happy to take
HRT for life.
I was initially taking Danazol to reduce SHBG levels but I think the
drugs went off in my bag because I have been travelling through some
hot countries. On speaking to a well informed bodybuilder (don´t
scoff, these guys are properly clued up), he said just take Proviron
and don´t mess with Danazol.
I have taken Proviron for just over 3 months. The progress has been
slow but I am MUCH better and I reckon in the next few weeks I will
finish off my recovery. You are supposed to take Proviron for
´several months´ according to the instructions. I am waking up with
morning erections and I am almost at the stage where I can start
Also, some subtle changes that I was looking for are returning. I
always used to have acne on my neck on the right hand side, making
shaving a bit of a problem. I am happy to say the acne is returning.
I am now shaving every 2 days, like I used to. The last 5 years I
was shaving every 6 days. Astonishing.
My voice is deeper, and how it used to be. It doesn´t crack anymore
to high notes when I´m out drinking in smokey pubs with my mates.
I am running to the toilet a lot to piss. I take this as a good
sign. I theorize that with my increased free DHT, the prostate is
bigger and thus exerting an upward pressure on my bladder, causing
urgency. I was looking for this to happen. Incidentally, I am a
doctor so am aware of physiology.
My hair has not started falling out yet again (it was falling out
loads before Propecia, and I have BARELY lost any hair for 5 years,
astonishing, again). But I reckon when my DHT is fully freed up and
the hair thinning cycle restarts, I will lose my hair again. Crazy,
huh!!?? Bring it on!!
Seriously chaps, I´m nearly there. After the most incredible amount
of pain and suffering I have endured. It wasn´t so much the ´no sex´
ban that this disgraceful drug imposed upon me, but the sheer
anxiety and depression, erratic thinking and a total loss of
appetite such that I went down to 8 and a half stone at one point
and had to force myself to eat.
I am not surprised that some chaps have committed suicide with
everything they had to endure. I was thinking about it myself, but
somehow managed to carry on through.
Seriously, I am not suggesting that Proviron is a miracle pill, but
it is a drug that has the desired effect on MY hormone profile, by
binding to SHBG and freeing up DHT, most notably.
I am very well informed about hormone profiles, and have taken
advice from Dr John about HRT. He helped me a bit, but he didn´t
complete the picture. I did it myself, and naturally, I am soooo
willing to help you chaps with any questions you may have. This is a
team effort. I have not played with you chaps the last couple of
years as I have been focused entirely on MYSELF. That is the way I
have done it. Now I am almost better, I will give ANYTHING to help
you chaps get better.
My first piece of advice is to stick with it, and maintain hope.
Always have hope.
I can´t even begin to go throught some of the events over the last 5
years that illustrate the shit, THE FUCKING SHIT I have had to put
up with, so I won´t. But lets just say there were some very dark
moments. Very dark.
Secondly, research Proviron. There are 4 effects that Proviron has
and they are widely found on the net. It acts as an anti-E, it
frees up DHT and T which are most important for us.
I reckon I still have a few weeks to go of recovery (getting
spontaneous erections etc) and then I have to reduce my dose of
Proviron from 3 tablets a day to 1 tablet a day.
I hope I am not counting my chickens before they have hatched, but I
really am almost better. I feel great too.
Soon, I will be the happiest man in the world.
Get back to me!!
PS. In case I have confused anyone, the problem for me was this...
1. A high SHBG, thus binding all my DHT, thus causing a low free DHT.
A lot of my details are in the early posts.
In answer to the questions.....
1. I was 21 when I dicontinued Propecia after taking it for 3
months. I am now 26, almost exactly 5 years later.
2. No pain in the groin at all. I felt fine/normal with Propecia.
No sickness. As in, I felt fine in myself. The sexual sides were
almost total though.
3. List side effects
No morning erections
No erections ever, at all, and it would takes minutes to work myself
up to get a 10% erection
Crippling depression and ANXIETY and poor eating
Sparse pubic hair, beard growth slow
Hope this is ok
No symptoms of Peyronnies at all.
Going to other doctors did not help at all. They were more of a
hinderance and acted quite ignorantly, unsympathetically and were
Sort yourself out.
I would be surprised if Proviron could not sort you out as it frees
up DHT and raised libido. Make sure your T is high range.
In answer to another chap´s comment about my free DHT being low
despite having a high DHT level. Well, I sort of explained it.
My T was high: 29 where the range is 9 to 32.
My DHT was high 2.58 where the range is 1 to 2.6.
My free was in lower third: 79 where range is 40 to 160.
This means a high PROPORTION of my T is bound
SHBG is the main ´binding culprit´. My SHBG was 39 where range is 10
As SHBG BINDS TO DHT 6 TIMES MORE STRONGLY THAN TO T, I RECKON MY
HIGH SHBG IS MOPPING UP LITERALLY ALL MY DHT. I MEAN, MY T IS HIGH
YET MY FREE T IS LOW. SO, EVEN THOUGH I HAVE A HIGH DHT, MY FREE DHT
MUST BE REALLY LOW COS SHBG MOPS UP DHT 6 (YES, SIX!!) TIMES MORE
READILY THAN IT MOPS UP T.
In answer to another chap´s question about whether 12 was too low
for a morning T level. Yes, that does seem to low. In my opinion.
I have not used Uprima. My main issue is ED.
Hope I have answered some questions and I hope there are more to
Well just checked my email account and I have 40 messages.
I am currently finishing off my world tour for a year (yes, I gave myself the year off) and am in Rio. This computer costs shit loads so I cannot reply to lots of messages, but next Tuesday I´ll be back in UK and will get stuck in then.
Having taken a cursory glance, a couple of chaps have bought Proviron.
Please, please, be patient with it. You have to give it 3 or 4 months. Trust me, I´ve been through it. Literally nothing happens for a couple of months. I seriously reckon Proviron will sort a lot of people out, if not improve people. It binds to SHBG like buggery and often causes TOO frequent erections.
Another interesting point........... Bodybuiders use a LONGCHAIN testosterone called Deca. It is not uncommon for some users of Deca to suffer impotence whilst on it. Yes, you pump a long chain T into your body and it CAUSES impotence!! What do they use to combat this impotence? Not arimidex, nolvadex specifically, but PROVIRON. Bodybuiders are not scientists and rarely give scientific explanations to stuff (they tend to go by hearsay and experience). I am SURE that they suffer impotence because of a rise in SHBG. The heavier the T, the more significant the rise in SHBG.
I reckon this is what happened to me. Reducing DHT by inhibiting 5AR caused a backlog at the T level, pushing my T up very high. Seeing as I kept taking Propecia for 3 months whilst suffering sides, my SHBG level got used thi s high normal level and stayed there.
39 on a range of 10 to 40 does certainly seem too high for a chap in early twenties.
I will go through posts with a toothcomb in a week´s time.
No, I am recovering solely as a result of drugs. Drugs that I will be on for the rest of my life.
There was barely any spontaneous recovery for me by my own body alone. (That said, there was a slight improvement when I did weights for 3 months in a row), but it stopped when I stopped doing weights and went back to normal.
Right, sorry about the delay. Was living at my parents' house and didn't wanna log in with this email address and mess up my 5 year secret from them in one foul swoop.
Read some posts about proviron and dosage and stuff, but I'll start off with answering this email from sapvsapv.
GIVE IT MORE TIME THAN 2 MONTHS.
Right, this is rambling and complex to understand, so read carefully....
My problem I reckon is SHBG (39 on a scale 10 to 40).
For the first 3 months of taking Proviron, I was injecting 120mgs of Testosterone and 2 x 250iu of HCG.
This is my regimen:
Mon 120mgs T, 3 tabs proviron
Tues 3 tabs Proviron
wed 3 tabs proviron
thurs 3 tabs proviron
fri 3 tabs proviron
sat 250iu HCG, 3 tabs proviron
sun 250iu HCG, 3 tabs proviron
So I was taking 2 small doses of hcg the 2 consecutive days before my T injection (as this is when my T is lowest). This is classical T replacement therapy.
Right, after 3 months (I am currently 4 months down the line on Proviron), I was getting morning boners and normal boners were 80 to 90 percent normal. Acne coming back and subtle changes returning. Almost back to normal.
However, the normal T dose per week for T replacement for a guy is 70-80mgs a week. Previous testing has shown that 60mg takes me to the top of normal range of T. So, I was injecting twice as much as I should have done for 3 months (I knew this, but just took double the amount anyway, so I could feel some earlier effects and reduce the dosage accordingly later on).
Right, I started feeling really restless and aggressive at 3 months treatment, so I lowered my dose to 80mgs of T a week. Consequently, my erections have gotten worse, but I am less aggressive and feel good. I have been on 80mgs for 4 weeks now, and I am waiting to get fully better!! YES, I WILL GET THERE, but I know I have to wait some more time. I know it is ONLY A MATTER OF A FEW MORE WEEKS BEFORE I AM BETTER. My acne disappeared for a couple of weeks, but gradually it is coming back as I LOWER THE BAR FURTHER AND FURTHER DOWN. I KNOW I WILL GET THERE AS I KNOW WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME.
If you give it only 2 months, you will not get better. If you take the wrong dosage, you will not get better. I know I will get better soon. I am an intelligent guy, am a doctor, know what is wrong with my body finally after 5 years.
I predicted everything that was going to happen to me before I started taking Proviron and I have been right. I was right that my erections are best on a Thurs and Fri because T and HCG actually temporarily PUSHES UP SHBG, and when my T is increasing on a SAT (hcg), SUN (hcg), MON, TUES, WED ( all T as it takes T 3 days to peak in the blood), my erections are less good. I was right because I know my body. Please, trust me chaps, I am right. I don't know all your hormone profiles and Proviron may not work for you if your SHBG is low, but this stuff is perfectly designed for me, and bodybuilders love it for their erection improving qualities (esp at the end of their cycles, when they have lots of heavy T chains which pushes up their SHBG, thus causing impotence, despite a high T............yes, all their DHT is being bound by the increased SHBG).
I got 300 dollars worth of Proviron in South America when I was travelling........yes.........shit loads but it's cheap and sold over the counter in pharmacies. Over the net, I guess it's expensive. In Ecuador, it was 3 dollars a pack.
Get back to me by all means, but please read what I have written above carefully and what I wrote last time carefully because I am right!! And arrogant too!!!
One last thing.... everyone should get onto some bodybuilding boards and learn some stuff.
I phoned up Mick Hart, UK bodybuilding expert and told him what was wrong with me. This was 2 years ago. He said........'listen, I'll tell you whatta do. I got no certificates, no academic grades, just my 25 metre swimming badge, but you wanna take a 250mgs of sustanon and one proviron a day. You'll be better in between 1 month and 4 months'.
And he would have been right. I would have been, but I was too stuck up my own ass to listen to a guy with no medical qualifications and just brawn. I was wrong. As it happens, I reckon I would be super aggressive on this regimen, and am happy to settle for 80mg of T (although I'm taking 3 proviron a day... (I'll reduce to one a day for life when I'm totally better)), but I know I'll get there. I reckon it could even be another 2 months. That said, if I walked to my bedroom now and pumped in a good 200mgs of T now, I'd be better in 2 or 3 days. But I'm not going to. I'll be better in about 2 months. And I know it.
Fuck that shit man.
I am a doc, my mates are docs. Docs (I had to humiliate myself and see my tutor who was an endocrinologist) are just normal humans. We have to get ourselves outta this total shit. It's taken me fucking 5 years of pure indescribable pain. Pure pain. Those fucking cunts at Merck are such cocksuckers. I hope their rotten souls suck cock in hell for all I care. I hate it when those leech cocksucker drug reps (from ANY drug company) come onto the wards I work on and try and sell me drugs by sucking up to me, pretending to know my name and offering me free gifts. They all look the same, gelled up FHM hair with Clavin Klein glasses (probably non-prescription), cheap suits and a briefcase whilst I'm striving away. They can suck their own capitalist dicks. I'm gonna break their fucking necks when I'm better and ram so much crap down their throats. I've already got the name and address of the Merck manager in the UK, and I'm gonna make his life hell soon.
Just letting off some steam.
As regards not recovering, I think this is bullshit. There is a cause for all this, it may be different in each of us, but most people get better, and those who don't haven't put enough time, energy, effort or finances into it.
Dr Crisler couldn't get me better: he just did what he does best...put me on TRT. He never came up with the theory of insufficient DHT. In fact, he dismissed SHBG readings as 'immaterial'. I think he is wrong and I know for a fact that the latest bodybuiding tricks are to really get SHBG down by whatever means.
In being on TRT and proviron, I have eliminated low T as being a problem, eliminated high E2 cos Proviron acts as aromatase inhibitor. This pill is perfectly designed!!
I feel great daily. I really do.
Sorry about that outburst, but I am more aggressive these days. Makes a change not to walk around with a hormone profile of a 95 year old.
re, an updated lab report. I don't have one, but I know that 60mgs of T bumps my T to top of normal range, say 1000. I'm going by my experience and knowledge now, and the advice of bodybuilders who achieve what they want without ever performing a blood test.
PS, For those in Europe Greece is apparently a great place for proviron.
Well, I hope you're all following my progress carefully because I'm getting better. As you know I lowered my T dose from 120mgs to 80mgs a week cos I was feeling aggressive. Hence my erections got worse temporarily. I have now been taking Proviron 3 times a day for 4 months and 12 days.
I am pleased to say that I am starting to show some great signs on 80mgs a week of T, which is pretty much gonna be the dose of T I am gonna take per week for the rest of my life.
Acne is back in the right place, morning erections have started uo again, and I think my hair is about to start falling out again after 5 years of losing literally NO hair. Weird, I know.
I yet again emphasise that SHBG is my main culprit. I reckon when I hit the 6 month mark on Proviron I should be almost better and ready to SHAG!!!!!!!!!!
For those chaps who are taking proviron....stick with it. I'm getting there. I'm soo excited. With proviron, I am lowering the bar slowly and soon I'll be back on the scene
Hey chaps, Well good news,
As you know, I lowered the dose of my T to 60mgs a weeks from 120mgs a week as 120mgs was making me feel aggressive. On 120mg T my erections were virtually back to normal.
I am starting to feel some good effects now on 60mgs a week as things obviously got worse when I dropped the dosage initially. I will be on 60mgs a week for the rest of my life.
I am getting morning erections and they are good quality, ejaculation fine and I feel GREAT.
I am taking Proviron 25mgs 3 times a day and have been taking it for 6 months (yes, yes, I know it sayd you should get better in 3 or 4 months) but I am taking HCG and T shots and both of these cause temporary rises in SHBG (which is the problem for me).
I am also starting to look more bald which is great news.
I urge you to follow my progress as I am getting there, slowly but surely. I know my body VERY well now and I know will progress will end in a full recovery...it´s just taking slightly longer than I thought.
SO long, speak to you chaps in a month or two