PROPECIAHELP: Persistent Finasteride Propecia Proscar side effects info & discussion forum

cdnuts - Do you have any hormone tests results to report on (from before you started taking the AndroHard)? I was searching for them in the "Blood Tests" section, but I couldn't find any. Thank you.

It has had the most effect on me, yes. I actually can't believe it's legal, to be honest. Libido was there, so yes, there was an increase. And I did get more nocturnal and morning erections while using it.



I've already stated I don't have blood tests. Please read.

Right. Sorry about that.

I too took the Androhard for a month and must agree with everything CD says. I'm currently doing a mild PCT with Nolva and Arimidex at 1mg a day and feeling pretty good. The Androhard cuts you up too and increase beard growth and thinkness. So far this has been one of the better supps for DHT besides Proviron itself.

Ihatepropecia702 - do you have bloodtest with adiol-g included? - before or after androhard? you said in previous post you were doing bloodwork with your doctor (as well as a lot of other meds)

have you discontinued those meds? did they have any effect on you?

I did do blood work on May 28, but I dont have the results yet. I did not test adiol-g. Just the norm T's, E's, DHT, Progesterone..ect. Moving forward I'm looking to add adiol-g but dont have it at current. Yeah, I have TONS of meds..but dont use them all - thats to crazy, but I have been pretty much a ginnie pig. I have Prozac now too and going to start a lose dose protocal probably in a week to see if that helps with the mental (alloprenanolone) sides.

In both CDnuts and scaredinMD cases, is it true that the substance taken suppressed the system? I'm just wondering if we were to generalize about a formula for fighting post-FIN persistent side effects, would it look like a 6 week suppression of the HPTA axis (or wherever you draw the line and seperate the "system" affected), followed by a regimen of herbs to increase androgens/testosterone, plus an estrogen blocker?

Like many of you, I'm wondering if this will be an answer for a number of post-FIN sufferers. If it is, it would be no surprise that our answer came from the bodybuilder/sports nutrition community to some degree; they have much more experience with somewhat similar endocrine problems through the years.

BTW, IDK if any of you saw this on the primordialperformance website, but on the science description tab for AndroHard (see Harder Erections heading), you will find a reference (but not link) to propeciahelp.com. It's harmlessly used to suggest a place where one can discuss devastating side effects caused by Finasteride in some men.


So far, we have two people on this forum using AndroHard? How much of it did you use during your cycle? 6 week cycle?


Also, anyone who has tried the Blue Up and Inhibit E without the H-Drol cycle (aside from ScardinMD), raise your hand and share with us, please.

I used androhard for about 30days and it worked well. I noticed though that it started to shut me down a bit so I stopped. I'm also currently on a PCT with Blue Up and Inhibit E, which I plan to do for a month or two. I'm also using Arimidex and Nolva as well. So far so good. If this fails, then I will give my system a month or two of down time then do the H-drol cycle + PCT cycle.

thanks for the reply, Ihatepropecia. good to know that there are some guys on here thinking along the same lines as myself ATM. concerning the cycling and PCT, I am currently more concerned about what is used in the PCT part. I am wondering if the Blue Up and the Inhibit E will be sufficient.... but I suppose it's worth trying those before doing Nolvadex or clomid or X (?) have an opinion on that yourself?

I'm guessing that adding more fenugreek to my curry might help during the PCT. extract from fenugreek is the active ingredient in TestoPro. Anyone tried TestoPro?

TBone -

Both AndroHard and H-Drol are suppressive of the HPT axis, yes, but whether or not resuppressing the HPT axis by means of steroids holds a *general* solution to post-fin syndrome is very much up for grabs, I would say. It seems to have worked for ScaredinMD, but whether it did the job for cdnuts and Ihatepropecia702 will only become apparent post-PCT, that is, in a few weeks. More generally, and as Propecia has taught us all, different people react very differently to these sorts of drugs...

As to your question who is on this regimen, I am not yet, but I am thinking about doing basically the same program (including contingency plan) which Ihatepropecia702 has embarked on. However, I haven't started yet because I want to get certain tests in first before messing with my hormonal system again, especially 3alpha-DIOL G. That way, I have a baseline to compare things to after all is said and done (the kind of thing I should have done prior to Propecia...). Either way, I will keep people posted.

For PCT, the general consensus in the bodybuilding community seems to be that Nolvadex is to be preferred over Clomid. The guys over at PP seem to be skeptical about both, however. But then again, we are not doing all this for bodybuilding purposes, so who knows.

Ihatepropecia702 -

You said you started to shut down. What were the symptoms there? Thanks!

If using Androhard an AI is probably not really all that necessary unless you are very prone to estrogenic side effects, as it is a DHT prohormone it won't aromatize and will actually lower estrogen anyway. Shame they don't ship to Australia, i wouldn't mind giving it a try. I wonder if a heavy cycle of Andractim would essentially be the same thing?

I guess PCT would depend on how suppressed you are, but if the goal of the whole thing is to suppress the HPTA then presumably you want to be somewhat suppressed. On one hand, you could do a natural PCT, which would be fairly safe in terms of side effects, or run a SERM such as Nolvadex or Toremifene, which no doubt do a better job of raising T levels, but needs to be used responsibly. Many bodybuilders also run low dose HCG throughout the entire steroid cycle to keep their balls ticking over so they are ready to kick back in when the time comes.

The basic shutdown symptoms were less ejaculate, balls seemed smaller, and the little libido that there was was completly turned off - none. When I first started the androhard there was an increase libido, which probably came from the initial increased DHT in the system, but over time, and I'm only speculating, the hypothalamus sensed it and told the pituitary to stop sending LH and FSH, thus less libido and ejaculate. Also, mood seemed to get worse. I'm not sure if this is how it work, but those were the effects I got after using the Androhard. I also had these effects but to a greater degree after using Proviron for about 4-6 weeks at 75mg per week. At first the Proviron was awesome, almost like a cure, but then some how it "catches up with you" and you start to get suppresed. Perhaps a lower dose might work..dunno..i havent tried playing with it again.

mariobros -

I don't know about Andractim, but I would suspect that AndroHard would be similar to Proviron, which is also an already 5alpha-reduced precursor of DHT. I agree with everything else you said. Here is a link to what seems to be a knowledgeable discussion of on-cycle hCG administration:

http://www.primordialperformance.com/st ... s-hcg.html

Ihatepropecia702 -

Those sound plausible as shutdown symptoms. As mariobros said, however, some shutdown might be desirable in this case. But who knows.

feunugreek seeds has been shown to cause testicular damage in rats. stay away from them.
Also the best thing that can help is Arimidex and Nolvadex. again blue up might not be safe as it has tribulus, which has cause gyno and hypogondadims for many.

sps

I've read this before, but do we know if tribulus caused gyno or hypogonadism directly, or it raised T so high that the excess T started to convert to E then over time E accumulated and that caused gyno and hypo? I'm not sure it tribulus does it directly, but I think its more likely the estrogen causes. I'm not sure though.

whew, so many products, so many theories... this is just what ScaredinMD mentioned when I sent him a message. Nolvadex or another SERM might be necessary. I just wish we had a way of judging approximately what sort of PCT regimen is good for our situation. I'm guessing that many of the people on this site share symptoms I have... shrunken balls, shrunken penis, probably a smaller prostate (rarely have urgency), fat deposits and water retention on an otherwise lean body, loss of short-term memory, poor sleep, lack of joy, lack of libido, etc. I am normally 188cm/6'1 1/2" in height, 182ish/80 kilos in weight, sub-8% body fat, Caucasian (85%German, 15%other+Anglo-Saxon). I'm guessing that a few of you on here have a similar profile prior to FIN use.

I'm guessing that many of you willing to try such cycling are also thinking that it's a good thing to try because if one cycle fails, then another can be attempted in the future. We apparently don't have any better answers, but personally I find the amount of info and products for PCT out there overwhelming.

I'm joining some of these anabolic/steroid forums to get some other viewpoints; thinking I'm going to get zero response or just a load of overwhelming crap...but, maybe it's worth a try. If anyone else is using such forums and would suggest one to me, please do.

This has been worrying me, but I keep telling myself that it is unlikely that the one person who tried this would be the one person who would respond positively to it. The way I have been thinking about it is that propecia screwed up something in our system, so if we get shut down and restart, we should restart correctly because propecia won't be there to screw our system up again (which is what seems to have happened to ScaredinMD). That seems like the most obvious explanation to me, but in the end who knows?

Doing this cycle is a tough call especially when you consider all the other variables, such as whether a SERM is needed for some people or whether some people would get shut down at all, but in the end it seems like this is the only solution we may have. Hopefully it works out for us.

Just to chime in. I only ran a four week cycle because I too noticed that libido completely disappeared and I started feeling cranky. I was gonna run it the whole six but decided not to once I got these symptoms. As of now, all of the DHT related benefits that I had while running Andro are gone. I reallly didn't expect them to stay though. The H-drol cycle is more suppressive then the andro hard and it's also not a "natural" steriod hormone such as DHT. This may or may not have something to do with it.

Elitefitness.com is a good site with alot of knowledgable juice heads. There are also propecia posts there as well.

well thats depressing to hear.