PROPECIAHELP: Persistent Finasteride Propecia Proscar side effects info & discussion forum

Forum for men with PERSISTENT sexual, mental & physical side effects which CONTINUE DESPITE QUITTING Finasteride (Propecia, Proscar), a 5AR inhibitor drug for hair loss, prostate enlargement & prostate cancer.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:42 pm 
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Another very informative post awor but it doesn't explain some things. For example many men with this syndrome/disease don't crash, they get very bad symptoms on the drug which don't improve when they come off. I think JN and cdnuts are among these but there must be many more, probably the majority, who lose libido/get ed that doesn't clear up when they stop but don't suffer that cruel, massive deterioration in symptoms AFTER they quit the poison.

Hormones definitely don't explain much of this mess. Mine are similar to 'troubledfinuser' (low T, cortisol) yet he just has low libido and energy while I tick virtually all the boxes. Also some of my total testo readings were close to mid-range while my muscle was melting off. I have had just about every symptom of androgen deprivation. This makes sense if T levels are only supposed to fall by 2% a year and mine collapsed off a cliff at once, anyone should feel as fucked up as I did and do, yet loads of guys only have libido issues with sub-range T levels. Why do some of us barely seem to respond to androgens compared to others? High dose TRT seems the only feasible option but going by your experience and similar side effects will likely not work.

I was reading this thread about a bodybuilder who didn't do a PCT after a cycle and had to go on TRT, for months his T level was only 1 (!) on a scale of 10-30 yet the only sides he seemed to get were no ejaculate and less bulk at the gym!
http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-test ... cover.html

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:54 pm 
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It could all be because of the rate in which the body responds to the androgen relapse, and to what degree hypermethylization occurs.

However, with statements such as "Adiol-G is about 75% a marker of AR gene expression and NOT of 5AR activity" - it would be great to see a source so we can all be better informed of what is going on.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:47 pm 
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If you could assess the function of hypothalamus-hypophysis, gonads and hippocampus as a whole unit you could find a solution, but the whole system seems twisted to me. GNrH is definately downregulated but i doubt it is only below that, hippocampus is damaged as well, otherwise it would recover promptly after fin use


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:56 pm 
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Quote:
hippocampus is damaged as well


you've confirmed this via testing? have a source? not trying to be a dick here, but don't love hearing statements like "you've got brain damage" if your just saying it out of the blue without backing it up.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:13 pm 
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Location: BRAZIL
I dont think hippocampus is damaged. I have days when i fell very close to normal (rare), days when i feel very very bad (rare also) and most days i feel somewhere in between. Many symptoms appear depending on what food i eat or stress related. I feel like something has been turned off, and can be turned on again if some kind of enzime is restored in my system.If hipocampus was damaged, i would never have good days and bad days would be the norm.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:12 pm 
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Quote:
I have days when i fell very close to normal (rare), days when i feel very very bad (rare also) and most days i feel somewhere in between.

Many symptoms appear depending on what food i eat or stress related.



Well then, you're likely an exception... who knows, perhaps your issues were not as severe as others, or as Awor points out, that each individual's body and genetic makeup is different, this drug affects each individual to different degrees, and correspondingly any "sensitivity" to androgens will be variable.

In my case, things like penile shrinkage, loss of libido, gynecomastia, decreased ejaculate volume, no morning/nocturnal/spontaneous erections are not influenced by "diet" or "stress" one bit. These appeared on the drug, got worse off the drug and have continued for 5 years irregardless of diet, excercise, supplements, waiting on time and any other natural treatments tried thus far.

Something in my (our) bodies has been fundamentally altered and is no longer working correctly since quitting, when DHT returned and the Testosterone crash occurred. If it is androgen resistance, that would explain a lot regarding lack of symptomatic improvement, as some have noted despite even being put on TRT.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:44 am 
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Age: 28
Drug: Propecia
Usage: 34 days
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I crashed on the day i quit. How can this be explained.....not being sarcastic


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:30 am 
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Location: BRAZIL
I m sorry to hear that Mew.
But i need to rephrase one sentence: Many symptoms WORSEN depending on what food i eat or stress related. Sorry, english is not my first language.
In the first two years i had penile shrinkage on most days. Now, on most days it looks normal. Loss of libido is still a major problem for me. Even on the days i am feeling better, i have maybe 15% of the sex drive i used to have. On these days penis seem a little more sensitive. But it also fluctuates, there are days i have zero libido and i cant feel my penis. Morning erections also vary a lot for me. Some days a half erection, some none, and some a normal one. Spontaneous erections are still absent. But i am able to get an normal size erection by manual stimulation on most days.
I just had a couple of bad days this week. I was having to take Omeprazole daily for Acid reflux and when i stopped it my metabolism took a couple of days to return to where i was prior to Omeprazole. I couldnt sleep well, erection was bad, depression, anxiety, skin rash. After three days i am better. So my point is when my body goes under a stronger stress, my symptoms worsen. I need two or three days to improve. This has happened many many times in five years. So maybe my body is still capable of producing some of the stuff i need but not enough to make me feel normal. The production of this stuff (which we dont know what is.. DHT? Adiol G? An enzime that makes body sensitive to DHT?) gets affected when my body is stressed. Then after the stress is gone, i feel like it slowly builds up and i improve. Thats how i feel, sorry i really dont know another way to describe it. This fluctuation gives me hope it is reversible. For all of us.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:40 pm 
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How many guys has Dr Jacobs seen for this? Others outwith this forum?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:52 pm 
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Has anyone got ultrasounds done to check out our livers for "liver Cirrohsis".

I'm at complete awe right now...My hormone profile and thyroid profile is normal and I'm still sick. I'm going to start a liver cleansing regmine and see where to go...


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:01 pm 
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The liver is a very forgiving organ and although damaged by fin I doubt this would still be a factor a long time off unless yuo are a serious alcoholic. I probably damaged mine more a bit drinking a lot between quit and crash but it's not any kind of answer now.

Basically those of us with low t levels and accompanying symptoms that last for ages have to accept we have acquired some sort of resistance to androgens and move forward from there, however difficult and scary it is to accept as there seems nothing can be done.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:47 pm 
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Age: 28
Drug: Propecia
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anonnn1 wrote:
Has anyone got ultrasounds done to check out our livers for "liver Cirrohsis".

I'm at complete awe right now...My hormone profile and thyroid profile is normal and I'm still sick. I'm going to start a liver cleansing regmine and see where to go...


Has anyone tested for copper, im going to this week.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:55 pm 
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letsconvenience did - and came back positive.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:21 am 
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Location: Pennsylvania
Age: 37
Drug: Propecia
Usage: ~58 days
Started: 0-11-2008
Stopped: 0- 1-2009
Location: Pennsylvania
jeez, if copper toxicity were an answer for some us, that would truly amazing. chelation therapy anyone? It's more effective and faster than any oral liver/system cleanser regimen. I'm speaking from experience.

please keep us updated if you've identified copper toxicity and plan to begin treatment/regimen.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:32 am 
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Once again, can we keep this thread on topic (ie, in relation to what Dr. Jacobs has written).

If you wish to discuss other things like "liver cirrhosis" and "copper toxicity", pls do so in other threads that already exist on those topics. Cheers.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:45 am
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Location: Boston
Age: 36
Drug: Propecia
Usage: 21days only!
Started: 21 Jan 2007
Stopped: 14 Feb 2007
Location: Boston
Recently went to Dr. Jacobs.
He has a lot to offer. I would like to be able to explain more but he and I only talked for about an hour straight.
Great guy,
and seems like the one.
Great office space, demeanor, and location.
Again, his office and space is amazing, a great place to work on our issue.
I would encourage people to go see him.
We should also just gather the cash to try and pay him to simply spend some long nights in his office researching, reading this forum and all the information, researching, writing, and devising some plans of action to help us.

Go visit Dr. Jacobs because he apparently seems the most capable of helping our case because of his background in neuroscience as well.
NYC is a great place to visit too. 5th Avenue and all the flagship designer stores are just a block away too.

Mew, hop on a plane and go pay him a visit. Anything you say means nothing until you start working with someone.

We visited the forum while talking in his office, breezing through articles, brain-storming, thinking out loud, and talking about all the various factors that could be involved, as well as plans to try to test for and tackle every possible question mark. The guy has a great bit of energy and enthusiasm for tackling our situation it seems. He seems to have a great ability to multi-task and be flexible and open-minded. He also seems to be very under control and an easy person to access, keep in touch with, and work with.

I look forward to any updates!!

Greetings fellas!!! :D :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:20 pm 
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lol welcome back boston :shock: :? :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:23 pm 
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Very nice Boston..I think Dr. Mariano is another great option too...He seems to have a vast understanding of the human body...


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:19 pm 
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Dr. Jacobs has updated his blog with a new post.

It has been added to the first post in this thread (October 14 -- "Another Piece of the Post-Finasteride Hypogonadism Puzzle?" -- http://blog.alanjacobsmd.com/alan-jacobs-mds-blog/2010/10/another-piece-of-the-post-finasteride-hypogonadism-puzzle.html )

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:05 pm 
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Quote:
It may be the case with finasteride that a common epigenetic effect interacts with a less common variant in the androgen receptor gene CAG repeat profile to cause its syndrome of crippling persistent post-finasteride hypogonadism.

Looks like awor was ahead of the Doctor on this one. Good job....


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