PROPECIAHELP: Persistent Finasteride Propecia Proscar side effects info & discussion forum

1) Where are you from (country)?

UK

2) How did you find this forum (Google search -- if so, what search terms? Via link from a forum or website -- if so, what page? Other?)

Google

2) What is your current age, height, weight?

24, 5' 11'', 72kg

3) Do you excercise regularly? If so, what type of excercise?

Regular exercise - Running (although not as much at mo due to shin splints), yoga, squash, gym - weights, walking

4) What type of diet do you eat (vegetarian, meat eater, raw, fast-food/organic healthy)?

Very healthy, part raw in past week or so. Lot's of vegetables/fruit, but also fish, brown bread, lots of spinanch

5) Why did you take Finasteride (hair loss, BPH, other)?

Receding Hairline

6) For how long did you take Finasteride (weeks/months/years)?

Trialed one week, got headaches. Re-started 2 weeks later for 7 weeks.

7) How old were you, and WHEN (date) did you start Finasteride?

24, 1st Dec 2010

8) How old were you when you quit, and WHEN (date) did you quit?

24, 24th Jan 2011

9) How did you quit (cold turkey or taper off)?

Cold turkey

10) What type of Finasteride did you use – Propecia, Proscar, Fincar or other generic?

Propecia

11) What dose did you take (eg. 1 mg/day, 1 mg every other day etc.)?

1mg

12) How long into your use of Finasteride did you notice the onset of side effects?

7 weeks in

13) What side effects did you experience while on the drug that have yet to resolve since discontinuation?

Put an X beside all that apply:

Sexual
[X] Loss of Libido / Sex Drive
[X] Erectile Dysfunction
[ ] Complete Impotence
[X] Loss of Morning Erections
[X] Loss of Spontaneous Erections
[X] Loss of Nocturnal Erections
[ ] Watery Ejaculate
[ ] Reduced Ejaculate
[ ] Inability to Ejaculate / Orgasm
[ ] Reduced Sperm Count / Motility

Mental
[X] Emotional Blunting / Emotionally Flat
[X] Difficulty Focusing / Concentrating
[X] Confusion
[X] Memory Loss / Forgetfullness
[X] Stumbling over Words / Losing Train of Thought
[X] Slurring of Speech
[X] Lack of Motivation / Feeling Passive / Complacency
[ ] Extreme Anxiety / Panic Attacks
[ ] Depression / Melancholy

Physical
[X] Penile Tissue Changes (narrowing, shrinkage, wrinkled)
[X] Penis curvature / rotation on axis
[ ] Testicular Pain
[X] Testicular Shrinkage / Loss of Fullness
[X] Genital numbness / sensitivity decrease
[ ] Weight Gain
[ ] Gynecomastia (male breasts)
[X] Muscle Wastage
[X] Muscle Weakness
[ ] Joint Pain
[X] Dry / Dark Circles under eyes

Misc
[ ] Prostate pain
[X] Persistent Fatigue / Exhaustion
[ ] Stomach Pains / Digestion Problems
[ ] Constipation / "Poo Pellets"
[X] Vision - Acuity Decrease / Blurriness
[ ] Increased hair loss
[ ] Frequent urination
[X] Lowered body temperature

[X] Other (please explain)

- Wounds taking a long time to heal (some cannot heal)
- Slow beard growth
- Slow nail growth

14) What (if any) treatments have you undertaken to recover from your side effects since discontinuation of the drug?

Cycling Vitamins - 50mg Zinc, Fish Oil, various other vitamins (B6, 12), Calcium, Vit E, Vit D. Just started on some Pituity vits + Iodine.

15) If you have pre or post-Finasteride bloodtests, what hormonal changes have you encountered since discontinuing the drug (pls post your test results in the "Blood Tests" section and link to them in your post)?

I had blood tests at 5 weeks off. Just had a second set at 10/11 weeks off. Will post when retrieved from my GP

16) Anything not listed in the above questions you'd like to share about your experience with Finasteride?

I used to love life, I am determined to love life again

17) Tell us your story, in your own words, about your Finasteride usage and side effects experienced while on/off the drug.

Hello everyone,

I will try and keep this as succinct as possible and positive in places!

I took propecia for around 7 weeks but stopped immediately when I noticed my penis was shrinking. I experienced no other sides on the drug apart from when I trialed it for a week to start with and had some headaches. Maybe I also needed to drink more water on the drug.

2 weeks after

During the 2 weeks after stopping my main issues were with sleep and ED. During the night I would wake to this rushing feeling in my body and I had to take a multivit to calm me down, I experienced this for around 1 week before it petered off. I also noticed that my penis had become slightly bent to the left. I don't recall any other issues around this period apart from being absolutely knackered at work due to lack of sleep!

Following 4 weeks

The next month was very up and down. Some nights I slept OK (but not great) other nights no sleep at all. Some days my vision was blurry, others it was OK. The ED persisted but I could get it up with stimulation. Then, I was travelling abroad with work and I spent some time in the sun. I was around 99% recovered (apart from bent penis) for around 5-6 days. Then I crashed even lower, I experienced the rushing thing in the night again for around 4-5 days, was suicidal and had to keep taking fish oil to keep me sane. I also could not eat without water because my mouth was so dry. The following 2 weeks I was also completely impotent, but exercised 1-2 times daily until I got to the point I could get an erection again with stimulation.

From there onwards until today 10/11 weeks on

Ever since this moment I have been trying to build myself back up to where I was before by doing all sorts of sports that I have engaged with throughout my life (Judo, Squash, Yoga, Running, Weights), but the following symptoms still persist:

- Shrunken pulled up testicles
- Loss of nocturnal, morning and random erections
- No libido
- Episodes of penis shrinkage
- Episodes of flaccid penis, like a sock with a potato in it
- Penis increasingly fibrotic
- Penis bent and rotated at base
- Glowing in the dark penis
- Talking Penis
- Dancing penis - has anyone had this?
(.. OK, so last 3 are a joke)
- Emotional blunting
- Loss of all interests
- Forgetfulness
- Very slow healing wounds
- Mildly dryer / thinner skin
- Blurry vision
- Prominent red veins in eyes, bloodshot
- Some muscle wastage but appears to have tapered off a bit
- Increased sweating

Now, in all honestly, I could live with ALL of the above, apart from my eyes and ability to be interested in things and have enthusiasm. I don't even care about the ED that much, I can live with the level of ED I have (severe), I just want my enthusiasm for life back and my eyes to clear up. So far, I have been for a full eye test and everything checked out OK (good news!), but they are still blurry.

Things that have improved are my racing heart (although still too fast at times in my opinion), energy is building up very very slowly, sleep is improving ever so slightly although continues to be a problem. My appetite is returning gradually, mouth dryness is improving slightly. I had some minor panic attacks around 1 month off and these have gone. I am not depressed or anxious, but actually relatively calm. I am not and have not experienced an abnormal amount of pain (apart from aching from gym). My legs and teeth were feeling weak for a while but they seem to be getting stronger since the last week or so.

I intend to use my private medical as much as poss to get through all this, although I recognise a 100% recovery is unlikely - but what do you think? I had my second set of bloods today with my GP (will post soon), I see one of the best cardiologists in the country tomorrow (just to get my heart checked because it feels like it's been through alot the last couple of months) and my GP is recommending me to an Endocronologist.

I really hope that somebody here reads this and can offer me some form of guidance/support in order to tackle those symptoms that still persist for me, in particular the mental sides & eyes. I would also welcome feed back around lifestyle changes. For example, I currently work for a large blue chip firm. I am tempted to leave and find refruge on this small Island i discovered in the Philippines 2 years ago. I vowed to live their for a prolonged period of time at some point, living a simple life without stressors + plenty of scuba-diving and time spent in the water. However, I realise this is selfish, my family and 2 friends are now helping me through this - I wouldn't want to just up and leave but face this head on - the question is how?

I welcome any advice, no matter how small, and hope that as I tick things off that list, I can offer support back to those on this forum.

Sincerely,
James

I just thought i'd post an update, if only to monitor my own progress... this has some interesting points of note, GP bloods + plus feedback from my visit to Professor Bouloux

In the past 2 weeks i've been eating at least 95% raw food, which I see as my attempt to shed some of the terrible mental sides I have been experiencing (mainly brain fog & emotional bluntness). After reading recoveries such as Japanther in this area and the success replicated elsewhere (cdnuts) this seemed like a good way to go. To be honest, i've always eaten very healthy and had been working up to this point ever since my crash roughly 3 months ago, so I don't really see this as a particularly drastic move, just something i've been building up to. Morning always starts with broccoli, spinach and carrot smoothy followed by some chopped fruit (apple, orange, kiwi, pear and anything else lying around). I have found this to be an adequate start to the day, it has been helping, but it's early days. Lunch is something along the lines of avocado, tomatoes, lettuce, spinach, cabbage, walnuts, few raisons, sometimes small portion of cous cous, broccoli, cauliflower, carrot and again any other bits lying around (all raw). I have some sultanas and raisons lying around for snacks at work and these new "NakD" bars sold here in the UK. Basically they are chopped fruit and nuts compacted into a bar, not cooked/baked and nothing else added, they are really good snacks for work and fulfil any sweet craving I may get throughout any given day. The only exception I have been making is to have a couple of slices of wholewheat, seeded toast with butter before bed. This sits nicely the stomach and appears to be helping with sleep somewhat.

In the first week of the diet I didn't really notice much change in my mood, maybe slightly lifted. Then last week out of 5 days at work I think I had 3 good days (+ 2 OK'ish nights sleep); I was quite enagaged at work, laughing and joking and generally felt 70% my normal self. Quite an improvement having literally sat at my desk totally quiet for a good month or 2 (0%), whilst people were becoming increasingly concerned around me. So, on the face of it looks like the diet has been helping, but... to prove to myself it was the diet and not some form of placebo effect I decided to go out and eat a burger and chips with my family last night. The result - I felt shit, and now feel quite miserable, low and no desire to go and see friends or do anything other than mope about waiting for the new week to start where atleast I will have my work to try and focus on. So, from here inward, I am 98% raw food (no exceptions), the 2% accounts for buttered toast at bedtime, I really think this is a necessary exception. One thing to note is that this diet doesn't need to be painful, there are plenty of places to source nutritious raw food in the UK and the new bars I was talking about are a perfect substitute for the odd chocalate bar you may have had previously. It's actually quite fun shopping for new and interesting raw food, so I have full intentions of keeping this up as long as I can now; months, even years. I think it's possible with the level of support I am getting from my family.

In addition to noticeable improvement in mood as a result of the diet, I also found that coupled with the 2 good nights sleep I had, my eyes cleared up a bit. They were actually looking quite bright and white on one day and it seemed like my vision was clearer, maybe 90% as apposed to 65-70%. This is another reason why I will be strictly following this regime going forward, in the hope that prolonging the regime will force my body to adjust permanantly to the new improved mental and physical state. I really believe this can happen and that in time you can start re-introducing foods you used to know and love (Correiovip has followed a similar protocol with success). In the space of 2 weeks, these small improvements in mental state and vision that I did experience make me optimistic that a decent recovery can be made here simply by the food I eat. This also leads me to believe that the liver has a really important role to play here, cited in other threads. Maybe crashing or prolonged fin use slows liver processing down to such a degree, that all foods eaten post-fin kind of clog the liver up somehow and this is why some people get worse over time. In turn, the struggling liver affects the eyes and other parts of the body. Eating the cleanest raw food possible can only alleviate strain on the liver, giving it more opportunity to become strong again. I've also completely cut out alcohol, caffeine, sugar etc. I never really had much of this before fin anyway, so it's not hard for me to cut them completely out.

Aside from these above small positives, I've still got a bent numb cock, severe ED and no libido. Other sides are waivering + some new ones. I have had some small surges of libido, noticeably after I have had a carob coated raw food bar or vitamin dosing (early morning). However, these surges have been so few and far between that each time I haven't been able to resist seizing the moment and finding somewhere to relieve myself (sorry to start getting into details), resulting in a variable degree of pleasure. What then follows is just plain annoying - my balls pull up tight for the rest of the day or for a couple of days. I guess this is nothing you haven't heard before. They get a bit bigger after light exercise (any strenuous exercise just makes them smaller and tighter) but generally they are small, tight and the sack feels empty. The up and down thing also makes things like reading a chore. I used to love reading fiction, but now I simply cannot do it without my mind wandering off or my balls going up and down all the time. I just don't get it. It's these quality of life aspects that make this condition so difficult to deal with.

So while I think I have found a protocal to make me atleast seem human on a day to day basis, to this end I know i'm in a serious lot of shit here. Frankly, it's terrifying and especially seeing Dr Bouloux, who I understand has seen and continues to see PFS sufferers is as dumbfounded as the rest of us. During my first consultation with him we went through my story etc, then he checked me all over (including poking around in places I never thought i'd let another man). He couldn't see anything physically wrong with me, apart from maybe that my hands were a little cold. We talked for a little while and concluded that the best course of action for now was to give it another 4-6 weeks before trying anything. Now, I have to say, when I think back to where I was 2 months ago, where I couldn't talk to anyone with even a hint of personality in my voice, I know I have come a long way. So this could be good advice. I do still feel like I can recover further naturally, but do of course realise that it's a long road ahead and that other things might start degrading my health in that time. This is what worries me most. For example, my skin is drying out, my hands especially. They just feel dry and touching things feels different. Wounds continue to heal very slowly, and this does not appear to be improving. I may be experiencing some muscle degeneration but it's too early to tell. So, my general feeling is - SHIT. However, I agree with Professor Bouloux that I should exhaust all natural options before commiting to pharmaceuticals.

On a lighter note, Professor Bouloux seems like a really good guy, I think he's totally confused about our situation and isn't close to knowing the answer, but he does seem open minded. I did get the feeling he was leaving it up to me to decide what action I wanted to take, rather than dictate what to do next. He also agreed for the lab there to do all the blood tests I would need, so I will get them done over the next week or so. Knowing what to do next is a real conundrum, but I am very happy to be under Bouloux's supervision for whatever action I take. I haven't had the tests at Bouloux's lab yet but I had 2 sets with my GP at 2 months and 3 months off (probably do not cover everything I need for an assesment of what action to take):

15/04/2011

Serum Testosterone - 11.9 (10 - 30)
Free Androgen Index - 42.5
SHBG - 28
Haemoglobin estimation - 14.9
White Blood Cell count - 3.9
Red Blood Cell count - 5.36
Platelet count - 152
Serum Sodium - 140
Serum Potassium - 4.4
Serum Creatinine - 85
Serum Albumin - 44
Serum ALT - 42
Serum TSH - 1.27
Serum Bilirubin - 14

08/03/2011 (2 weeks after crash)

Serum Testosterone - 7.2 (10 - 30)
Free Androgen Index - 21.2
SHBG - 34
LH - 2
FSH - 8
Haemoglobin estimation - 15
White Blood Cell count - 5.5
Red Blood Cell count - 5.3
Platelet count - 241
Serum Sodium - 140
Serum Potassium - 5
Serum Creatinine - 87
Serum Albumin - 48
Serum ALT - 48
Serum TSH - 1.4
Serum Vit B12 - 538

I feel like my test levels have probably rose again from 11.2. Maybe somewhere around 15-16, just a hunch, but we'll see. I don't really understand everything well enough yet to make a reading into the wider results. Any comments welcome. I will post ranges and the results from Bouloux's lab later. Once I get my thoughts more together after a decent spell on the raw food, I am going to start my research into the human body and possible routes to recovery. I will not give up fighting for my life back, and when I get back I am going to do everything I can to get the Belgravia centre shut down in London and get this drug off the market. It's down right wrong for this to happen to anyone and I sympathise so much for some of the guys suffering many years. A part of me knows that this will likely be me in years to come, but another part of me really believes that this is not irreversible.

Catch up later

Cheers,
James

Hi James,

I ve just read your story and you are on the right track. The natural diet approach is great. I wish i had done that so fast when i quit fin. It took me two years to do it. Along with mild exercise, this is what you need... and it takes time to feel better. It is a baby step process. I also loved to read and i don t read as much as i used to, but after 5 years i develped other tastes. You are in the worst period, only four months since you quit. Be patient, the capacity to enjoy life will increase gradually. You really need to improve your sleep though, and exercising daily would be great. You could do bicycle, instead of running beacuse of the shin splints.

Take care.

Hi James,

I'll respond to your pm in a moment.

At first glance at your bloods one thing jumps out at me massively. Your testosterone levels are realllly low. For a young man, those levels are hypogondal. For your reference, most guys at your age woudl probably have levels in the upper 20's (your readings are clearly nmol/L). My reading is 32 nmol/L (very high) for instance.

I've like to see your oestradiol readings, a full thyroid profile and cortisol readings.

That said, no matter what they say those testosterone levels need seen to. I don't know what Bouloux has in mind for you but i know Dr Shippin/Dr Crisler would be putting you on clomid as a first protocol to see how that helps raise your levels and ultimately improve your symptoms.

This is good because atleast it gives you something to work with and id be confident you would find decent improvement by fixing your testosterone levels.

Bloods from Bouloux's lab with ranges:

FT4 14.8 (9.0 - 22)
FT3 4.87 (2.63 - 5.7)
TSH 2.21 (0.35 - 4.94)
Cortisol 457 (100 - 540)
Vit D 116.8 (>75 is adequate)
FSH 7.4 (0.95 - 11.95)
LH 3.7 (1.14 - 8.75)
Prolactin 194 (70 - 400)
Progesterone 1
Oestradiol 66 (40 - 160)
Testosterone 14.2 (9 - 30)
SHBG 34 (18 - 50)
DHT 1.79 (1.13 - 4.13)

Any comments welcome, I am doing reallly pretty badly at the moment.

Hi James. Your lab results and symptoms are pretty similar to mine. My testosterone level before and after Fin is the same and yet I continue to lose muscle. Not good. And boosting my testosterone levels with Tamoxifen only made everything worse. The only thing I would say is that your TSH is the highest on the forum.

I am currently exploring the idea that some of my more serious problems are caused by the inhibition and return of 5alpha & 3alpha reduced metabolites within my nervous system. Might be an option for you to look into too.

You need to test your free cortisol via a saliva test (serum cortisol is useless).
You forgot to test RT3.
What is the range of progesterone?

_________________
My story: viewtopic.php?t=3556
My blood tests: viewtopic.php?p=19897#19897

<2.0 was the UK one i got.

Hi Oscar,

Personally, I think that TSH is absolutely fine - ultimately it's bang smack in the middle of the ranges and I registered this number 3 years ago in a routine blood test before fin. Did you mean FT3? This does look slightly high. I could does Thyroxine (T4) to lower this, but in all honestly i don't think it will improve my symptoms dramatically. I don't think Thyroid is the route cause of everything, it's more than likely related to receptors and the prostate, with thyroid abnormalities as a symptom. Optimising thyroid will only mask the route problem in my opinion and i will only seek to treat thyroid if anything does look crazy weird, like out of range.

Hi m_81,

I continue to do my hills sprints every morning after waking up. I don't feel like I am over taxing my adrenals although i do find them difficult, more so than before. I sweat more and my mouth is dry. However, the benefits far outweigh the positives. It sets me up for the day so I can focus on daily activities. I've really incorportated this routine into my life now, as if I will been doing it forever, which i am absolutely prepared to do if it continues to make me feel OK. I have also introduced MACA (500g) twice daily. Once with breakfast after exercise and once later in the day. I don't really notice any affects from this, maybe the tiniest bit hornier but no erection to follow suit.

This regime is of course all focused at increasing testosterone. It has registered low in all of my blood tests and for me is really the one thing that stands out. I don't think I will have to raise it too much to feel an awful lot better though, considering that I already feel better after exercising. I also have a hunch that like you Oscar, I had lowish testosterone before fin. I have no blood tests to prove it, but there are few signs that lead me to belive this (I have ALWAYS found it hard to put on muscle. Ever since I was a kid i have always been on the slimmer side, athletic but very slim. I have also never really been into "manly" sports, favouring things like yoga or jogging instead of weights or boxing). Either way, it is currently very low and definitely needs to get pushed up into the 20s.

I thought I was developing gyno but think the exercise and current regime is holding this a bay. I really hope the benefits are cumulative and I will do some blood tests in a couple of months to see the results. I am adament that I will not be playing with hormones to treat this shit. Western Dr's don't know what's best for us, nobody does yet. I've been seeing Bouloux who is the best Endo in the UK and he doesn't know where to start, despite being a really top guy. All my life I have used exercise to make me feel good, so I will stick with what I know is good for me and aid my recovery with some natural boosters in the process.

Only other thing to note is I have been using a pro-state prostate massager every other day. Made sexual symptoms worse to date but I am going to persist. It's weird, but I actually take it as a good sign that the prostate massages have made sexual symptoms noticeably worse so far, just goes to show how even the tiniest bit of massaging can affect sexual function. I just need to get the technique right and continue to raise T in the process. My theory is the prostate needs a bit of pumping up. If this just leads to worseing over the medium term I am in touch with Dr G about a visit in November. This is a last resort.

Whatever happens, I am recovering 100%, thats the bottom line.

Yep, lab just confirmed

I have been using this as well. Stopped for a long time for some reason, but, started back up about a week ago. I have the helix. It's definitely 'snug'.

I think this 'awakens' my prostate a little. I find it works best if I just relax completely and don't tighten/release muscles. I use it about 25 minutes. Think it helps with penis sensitivity and libido, believe it or not.

Slight nagging groin, but, I had that off and on beforehand. We'll see if this improves or not.

I've used it 4 of the last 5 days.. Planning on 5 times/wk.

Hope improvements continue James.

I think a key thing in fighting this is consistency. I had a couple of drinks last night, almost didn't make hill sprints this morning, but pushed through.

Had to change name for privacy reasons. Sorry All !

I am not recovered, but I am glad to report the following symptoms have almost completely resolved:

- Muscle wasting: I don't think i was one of the worse sufferers here but i definitely lost muscle in the months following my crashes. My wrists are still probably marginally thinner, but it's not that noticeable as i have always been on the skinny side. I report this side affect as fully resolved due to the fact my biceps, arms, legs and general body form looks pretty much as before.

- Dry dark circles under eyes: These are not quite fully resolved, but my eyes were looking sunken, with darks bags and newly formed wrinkles. As my sleep has been improving over the past 1 month or so, these are starting to look comparable to before. I will add that some mirrors are kinder than others though!

- Beard Growth: My beard growth is not as good around the tip of the chin as before, but I am pretty much back shaving every 2 days. I'm yet to let it grow too much more than 2 days, but if i let it go i think it would be somewhere near comparable to before

- Nail growth: My nails on my hands are growing at the same rate as before again, toe nails slightly slower. I am exerperiencing some cuticle recession and dryness however. Unable to prove whether this is down to finasteride or not, most likely a result of general body deterioration accelerated by finasteride side effects. I'm not overly worried about this anyhow as i am sure it's reversible and not life threatening.

Other areas that are improving at a good rate include:
- Mental, including brainfog / ability to concentrate / think clearly etc.
- Sleep (it's hit and miss, but better than months 1-7)
- Ability to relax (not there yet, but better)

Other areas improving at a slow rate:
- Sexual

Areas not improving:
- Libido

Areas worsening:
- Penis & testicle size

Regime to get to this point:
I did a very good stint (2-3 months) of a consistent exercise protocol. It was mainly centered around a short exercise routine every morning; including hill sprints, pressups, situps, squats, boxer style skipping. No more than 30 minutes, but very intense. I also introduced daily (1-3 times a day) broccoli shakes (including 1 drop of nascent iodine, fresh ginger, spinach leaves, broccoli, MACA powder). I've also been taking a tablespoon of high quality fresh frozen royal jelly once per day. I've been taking supps as follows: 1 triple strenght garlic, 2 triple strenght fish oil and 1 mens multivit. L-Arginine and Zinc on an ad-hox basis to support sexual function, usually taken 30 minutes before intercourse, but becoming less and less dependant in the long term. My diet and eating habits are almost identicle to pre-fin, very healthy; lot's of fish, greens, fruits and fresh juices. I can now eat some chocolate and cakes without too much worry. My digestion is vastly improving, whereas before this regime i was often feeling like food was stuck behind my breastbone. Stools are also vastly improved in last one month. Sometimes medium-large size and of good colour. I attribute this to the exercise and also normal eating habits, including breads and pastas.

I have dropped back slightly on sexual function in past 1 week or so, but i am comfortable i can bring it back up again (no pun intended). I think it's because i really have let go a bit on the diet front, eating some chocolate and cakes, amongst some other things and neglected parts of my regime. Genital shrinkage has accompanied this spell. However, I think one week of solid commitment to my regime and i will be back to where i was around 2 weeks ago. I'm confident of this and actually quite re-assured writing this because it took me 2-3 months to get to that point and now i almost know i can get there in a week. I'm more in control of things now, I think I have a very simple formula that is nurturing my body to recovery.

Looking forward, I am aiming for a 2 year almost full recovery (aiming high!). I am yet to introduce weights and resistance exercise, which is a biggy, so I think this could really speed up my recovery when I finally find a suitable slot for it. I just need to be strategic about where it goes because I also do Bikram Yoga 1-3 times per week, together with playing Squash and spending time with my girlfriend. It's a hectic schedule, especially with bouts of fogginess, but it will be worth it in the end. Nothing else left to report really. I guess i'm doing OK, not recovered, but improving. I think there's light at the end of the tunnel, I just need to start pushing things up to the next level!

Good luck all, i will post an update in a few months

Chi

Only other update is i will not be seeing Dr G, but i do think that the prostate has something significant to do with our condition. I have neglected the prostate massages until i get hold of a new battery for my nexus vibro, but once it arrives i am looking forward to re-introducing the massages in conjunction with the rampup of my exercise regime, to see whether i can observe noticeable benefits. If anything, it's actually quite nice to stick this chunky vibrating thing up my arse. I take pleasure from whatever i can these days...

Keep up the good work Chi.

A run of clomid mightnt be a bad shout in your case, if you haven't look into that before.

Obviously you are doing the right things naturally but clomid could help the gonads back to full performance.

Dr Crisler and Dr Shippen now use a long term clomid approach for guys at 12.5mg ED. This has been deemed to be a feasible protocol for many. Could be worth a shot.

I really don't think drugs can fix this condition Mens. I think the cells and muscles in our body need to be naturally healed somehow. I'm also beginning to think that hormone issues are actually secondary to the root cause, that cause being something to do with a completely fucked genital area; including prostate and veins running to/from the testes, obstructing natural flow of signals to and from the brain and body. I don't think it's androgen resistance or that the root cause is low T, despite many similarities in symptoms. That's just my feeling listening and examing my body. I also think I have developed some varicoceles, which further substantiates this theory for me. I personally lean more towards the prostatitis theory, but not necessarily that it is prostatitis, but that the route cause is to do with the prostate and local region, this wreaks havoc on the HPTA and then we have all the associated issues.

I'm not going to spend my time researching the problem on the internet though, nor pasting links to research that may or may not back up my thoughts! I need to be out and about working to get better. I do however support and fully stand behind the research initiatives lead by people like Mew, Awor & 40. I am also willing to contribute with more samples and some cash if needed.

Quick update 03/10/2011

Definitely getting some mild fluctuations, but the trend is becoming more and more clear by the day/week. I am starting to have episodes of completely normal and clear thinking, like pre finasteride. The episodes come and go, but they are becoming more frequent. I have also started to experience a very very slight return of libido, and by this i mean random erotic thought + mild erection that follows type libido. It's very slight, but encouraging. I also had good sex 3 times on Sunday morning, that's got to be a good sign.

I've also experienced some bursts of anger and frustration resulting from some bad luck i've been having (parking tickets and various other things), which i am actually quite happy about because it is showing i do have some form of emotions returning, even if they are a bit negative. Lastly, i am continuing to think very positively about my/this situation

'good' sex 3 times in one morning is a very good sign!

I'm glad your condition is improving! I like your approach and your attitude. Just wondering... has your sensitivity improved a great deal? This is the thing that terrifies me the most right now and it burns a lot of my mental energy. I'd say my penile sensitivity/sexual sensation is somewhere around 30% or so compared to normal.

Sorry for the personal question but I'm hoping to hear a positive story around this particular side.

Continued success bro.