PROPECIAHELP: Persistent Finasteride Propecia Proscar side effects info & discussion forum

0) Where are you from (country)?
UK

1) How did you find this forum (Google search -- if so, what search terms? Via link from a forum or website -- if so, what page? Other?)
Search on Google for the following words: "propecia low libido"

2) What is your current age, height, weight?
33, 5ft 10, 85kg

3) Do you excercise regularly? If so, what type of excercise?
Yes, cardio and light weights at least twice per week

4) What type of diet do you eat (vegetarian, meat eater, raw, fast-food/organic healthy)?
High protein, low carb diet

5) Why did you take Finasteride (hair loss, BPH, other)?
Hair loss

6) For how long did you take Finasteride (weeks/months/years)?
Around 9 - 10 years

7) How old were you, and WHEN (date) did you start Finasteride?
22

8) How old were you when you quit, and WHEN (date) did you quit?
Quit on 01/10/2010

9) How did you quit (cold turkey or taper off)?
Tapered off by taking half a tablet for one month, then quit completely

10) What type of Finasteride did you use – Propecia, Proscar, Fincar or other generic?
1mg Propecia then eventually opted for a cheaper generic version

11) What dose did you take (eg. 1 mg/day, 1 mg every other day etc.)?
1mg per day

12) How long into your use of Finasteride did you notice the onset of side effects?
No noticeable side effects for the first 10 years

13) What side effects did you experience while on the drug that have yet to resolve since discontinuation?
Eventually noticed erectile dysfunction and a decrease in libido. At this point I quit the drug but the sides still persisted and in fact got much worse after quitting.

Put an X beside all that apply:

Sexual
[X] Loss of Libido / Sex Drive
[X] Erectile Dysfunction
[ ] Complete Impotence

[X] Loss of Morning Erections
[X] Loss of Spontaneous Erections
[X] Loss of Nocturnal Erections
[ ] Watery Ejaculate
[ ] Reduced Ejaculate
[ ] Inability to Ejaculate / Orgasm
[ ] Reduced Sperm Count / Motility

Mental
[ ] Emotional Blunting / Emotionally Flat
[ ] Difficulty Focusing / Concentrating
[ ] Confusion
[ ] Memory Loss / Forgetfullness
[ ] Stumbling over Words / Losing Train of Thought
[ ] Slurring of Speech
[ ] Lack of Motivation / Feeling Passive / Complacency
[ ] Extreme Anxiety / Panic Attacks
[ ] Depression / Melancholy

Physical
[X] Penile Tissue Changes (narrowing, shrinkage, wrinkled)
[ ] Penis curvature / rotation on axis
[X] Testicular Pain
[ ] Testicular Shrinkage / Loss of Fullness
[X] Genital numbness / sensitivity decrease
[ ] Weight Gain
[X] Gynecomastia (male breasts)
[ ] Muscle Wastage
[ ] Muscle Weakness
[ ] Joint Pain
[ ] Dry / Dark Circles under eyes

Misc
[X] Prostate pain
[ ] Persistent Fatigue / Exhaustion
[ ] Stomach Pains / Digestion Problems
[ ] Constipation / "Poo Pellets"
[ ] Vision - Acuity Decrease / Blurriness
[ ] Increased hair loss
[ ] Frequent urination
[X] Lowered body temperature

[ ] Other (please explain)


14) What (if any) treatments have you undertaken to recover from your side effects since discontinuation of the drug?
+ Cialis (for bloodflow)
+ Levitra (for bloodflow)
+ Viagra (for bloodflow)
+ BCAA Branched Chained Amino Acids (may boost genital sensitivity, help neurotransmitters and control cortisol)
+ Whey proteins (may help with post workout recovery)
+ Sustain Alpha, Toco-8 and Endoamp (may help boost testosterone production)
+ Cissus Quadrangularis (may help boost testosterone)
+ Longjack, Maca, Yohimbe/Yohimbine (may help boost testosterone production)
+ Triple Ginseng (may help boost testosterone production)
+ Ashwaganda ( may help to control cortisol levels)
+ Ejaculoid (may help boost with bloodflow and erections)
+ L-Arginine, L-Ornithine, L-Lysine combo (may help with firmer erections)
+ L-Arginine and Pycnogenol (may help boost bloodflow)
+ GABA (may help promote better sleep)
+ Ester C, Vitamin E and Valerina before bedtime (may help promote better sleep)
+ Magnesium (for erection strength)
+ ZMA and more recently, ZMK (for better sleep)
+ Hawaiian noni juice (may help boost immune system)

- Saw palmetto (to help my prostrate but it in fact made me worse)
- Primordial Performance Liver juice (may help with liver function but I noticed that the pain in my prostrate was a lot worse after taking this)



15) If you have pre or post-Finasteride bloodtests, what hormonal changes have you encountered since discontinuing the drug (pls post your test results in the "Blood Tests" section and link to them in your post)?

Blood tests immediately after quitting propecia showed elevated prolactin levels. This has now dropped down to normal range.
LH/RH test was normal.
Testosterone levels normal however I have not had bioavailable testosterone tested.
Waiting on further blood tests for estradiol etc.

16) Anything not listed in the above questions you'd like to share about your experience with Finasteride?
Thanks to everyone on this site. Your posts have helped me to get through the past 6 months.

I would say out of all the supplements that I have tried, the best has been BCAA (Branched Chained Amino Acids) and some Cialis/Levitra when required.
Also I found that GABA helped to promote better sleep.

17) Tell us your story, in your own words, about your Finasteride usage and side effects experienced while on/off the drug.

Immediately after qutting the poison drug, my symptoms improved but then I experienced a crash around 1 month later.
I had severe anxiety, couldn't sleep, prostate pain etc. All these symptoms have improved slightly but I still have not recovered.
Since quitting the poison, my libido has slowly but surely dwindled.
Still have some prostrate pain and shrinkage.

Quality of sleep is still poor along with the other side effects such as low libido, soft erections etc.

Cannot believe that this drug is still legal. Crazy.

Thought i would update this thread as there are some other treatments/supplements that I have tried, that i forgot to mention in my original post:

- Vaccuum therapy:
I tried this a couple of times.
It helped me to acheive a solid/hard erection but did absolutely nothing for low libido.
I would advise to only try this under supervision of a doctor or specialist, as there may be a risk of injury or trauma.

- Phyto testosterone supplied by Promordial performance;
I tried this along with some TCF-1 for a few days.
Noticed that my balls seem to hang very close to my body which i was concerned about, so i stopped this treatment.
I might restart it and take some DIM alongside these treatments, but i will start a new thread for this.

+ Broccoli treatment;
This treatment consists of lightly boiling, then eating some brocolli along with the juices left over.
Definitely helped my prostatis in the early stages after quitting fin.

+ Ball zinger;
This temporarily helped my sexual problems but is not a cure for me.
For this to work effectively, I found that i needed to shave my groin area and use some sand paper on the copper/zinc elements to remove any tarnish.
i haven't used the ball zinger recently as I'm a bit worried it may reduce sensitivity.

+ Aloe vera juice;
I've started drinking this lately and have noticed that my libido moved from about 1% to around 20%, A noticeable improvement!!
But the effects seem to wear off. Gonna try upping the dose very slightly.

+ BCAA "Chained out". This is a supp that I use post workout and it seems to help with muscle gains, erection strength and overall mood.
The first time I tried it i had solid wood for a couple of days. Definitely a supp i'd recommend. Maybe start off with a small dose though and work up gradually.

Currently I am taking the following supplements:
- Wellman Multivit
- BCAA Chained out, for post workout recovery
- Vitamin E (Toco-8 as required)
- Aloe vera juice every morning with freshly squeezed orange juice.
- 10mg Cialis as required, as prescribed by my doctor.
- 400UI VitaminE, 500mg Ester C before bed. Thanks to bluejaysfan for this tip!! :o)
- low dose ZMA/ZMK every other night before bed
I've noticed that large doses of Zinc or ZMA/ZMK is not good for me, so i take a low dose every other night.

I am trying to get plenty of rest and sleep.

Also try to walk and run regularly as this may help massage the prostrate according to the following thread:
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=691&hilit=gump

I still have some prostrate discomfort (My prostrate pain only started after quitting fin).
Maybe its infection related?

After i read the following thread, i think that in my case a TRANS-RECTAL ULTRASOUND of my prostrate may be useful to check for infection or calcium deposits:
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=5076&p=36311#p36311
Just hope my urologist will agree

My hair seems to be falling out, albeit slowly. Hopefully this is a good sign.

Please let me know if you come across an even slightly understanding doctor. I am in London.

UK20

Hope you get better soon man. Just hang in there bud.
I know its tough - i'm in the same boat as you are.

PM me anytime.

You have NHS care so make the best possible use of that. Make sure your GP is prescribing you Levitra & Cialis regularly.
Get referred to an endo and ask for the proper blood tests. Stay positive!!

I'm gonna get back on the spinach diet as from tomorrow!

Quick update on my situation:

- A recent MRI scan of my pelvic area was normal
- Ultrasound of my testes was also normal

Tried some Diesel Test tablets and I felt pretty good for a couple of days and then things got worse so I stopped taking it.
Tried some Royal Jelly yesterday and my libido went from 5% to around 40% :o)
Going to keep taking the recommended dosage and hopefully my situation will continue to improve. I would definitely recommend royal jelly.
The brand I'm taking now is freeze dried and is produced by Now Foods. I'm going to see if I can source some fresh stuff and start taking it in low doses.

I've also ordered some:
- Bee Pollen and Propolis (which are known to help prostrate problems .... I definitely believe the prostrate is the centre of our problems)
- Rhodiola
- Now Foods Thyroid Energy
- Now Foods <censored> Clear

I have completely stopped drinking alcohol. Not going to touch a drop until I've recovered to at least 90%.
Ok, well maybe the odd glass of red wine as it contains reversatrol.

I've lost at least one stone in weight as a result of excercise and am feeling A LOT BETTER, both mentally and physically.
Going to keep up the regular exercise, spinach diet, no alcohol and gradually start taking the above supplements.
I also take Toco-8 and sustain alpha which helps slightly.

I take Levitra or Cialis as required to help me get it up, but do NOT take both of these medications at the same time.

The past 6 months since quitting propecia have been very very tough .... extremely tough. Definitely the toughest period of my life to date thats for sure.
Still have mainly sexual side effects, but I'm hoping that if I get my prostrate checked out via a transrectal ultrasound, then this may shed some light on the situation.

My endo is completely ignorant!
Because my tests were all normal (including my testosterone blood test) he says my problem is physcological and told me that he doesn't want to see my anymore.

I found this interesting article today that suggests that the balance of DHT and 4-androstenedione should be 1:1
http://www.mikemahler.com/articles/Dihydrotestosterone.html
If DHT is higher and androstenedione lower, it creates a pro-carcinogenic state. However, if DHT and androstenedione levels are both high and at a 1:1 ratio, the pro-carcinogenic properties of high DHT are neutralized by the anti-carcinogenic properties of androstenedione. So if you've had blood work indicating high DHT levels, be sure to have the androstenedione levels measure as well.....

Also noticed that this guy suggests:
- Taking magnesium oil to increase DHEA
- Using a specific carnitine product to increase androgen receptor uptake
(it contains 4 analogs of carnitine: l-carnitine, n-acetyl-l-carnitine, propionyl-l-carnitine and l-carnitine l-tartrate)

As a patient of Dr Georgiadis, he has been prescribing carnitine to many of his patients, after prostate massage therapy.
I have been taking some carnitine recently but i've checked the label and it only says l'carnitine. The other 3 types are are not mentioned so i may try this other recommended brand with all of 4 carnitine types and see if it is any better.

Also, i think i need to get a blood test done to check my androstenedione/DHT ratio.

Later.

Quick update on my situation:
For the past few months I have been suffering from numbness in my rectal region.
When passing stools, i I had numbness in the anus and complete numbness in my anal sphincter.

Even after having a course of anti-biotics and prostate massages with Dr Georgiadis, the anal numbness still persisted.

However I have recently been drinking some 'Everyday detox' teas.
They are produced by 'Traditional Medicinals'. I have been drinking 2 teas per day and the numbness problem has completely gone.
Passing stools is easier and feels normal now. Sensitivity and a normal feeling in the anal region has returned.
Maybe the problem was due to a build up of toxins and estrogens?

Thought I would nemntion this incase anyone has a similar symptom.

Over the next few months, my plans are:

1) Continue taking 'Everyday detox' teas for the next couple of weeks.
Then I am going on a 2 week liver cleanse, using 'SMARTCleanse' from RenewLife.
NOTE: From my experience, it is not advisable to be taking Levitra/Cialis/Viagra whilst on a liver cleanse, or drinking the detox teas.

2) Go for another sperm culture test to check for infection. Specifically i'll be looking for:
- gramm positive
- gramm negative
- chlamydia
- mycoplasma
- ureoplasma
- gardnerella vaginalis
The last test that i had showed no significant growth, so I am going to ask for the sample to be sent to a different lab.

3) Go for blood tests to check androstenedione/DHT ratio. See this link for further info:
http://www.mikemahler.com/articles/Dihydrotestosterone.html

4) Continue taking 'Micro-mins' daily to neutralise the PH of my blood and thus minimise the chance of bacteria growing in the prostate.

5) Continue taking Vitamin-E. Currently I alternate between 'Toco-8' and 'Jarrows toco-sorb' daily.

6) Purchase a good carnitine supplement, probably some Quadcarn as it contains 4 analogs of carnitine.
This should increase androgen receptor uptake.

7) I have recently purchased an Aneros Vice prostate massager, however I haven't plucked up the courage to use it yet.
If i am feeling brave, I may try it out and of course follow the instructions carefully.

8) Eat healthy. Lots of fruit & vegetables particularly.
Avoid sugar and refined/processed foods.

9) Check with my local urologist as to whether or not penile injections and vaccum pump therapy may help me.
Apparently vacuum therapy on its own is no good as it forces the 'wrong' type of blood into the penis.

10) Ask my local urologist to check for venous leakage.

Regarding vacuum therapy:

I found the following video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqbQ8aYUYDE

Basically this guy (Dr. Gerald Chodak) is saying that a vaccum pump on its own will bring in venous blood into the penis, rather than arterial blood.
Venous blood doesn't have as much oxygen as arterial blood, therefore it might not be 'good' for penile rehabilitation.

Quick update.

The following supplements do not agree with me and may be of benefit to others thinking of taking these supplements:
- Zinc; causes shrinkage if taken regularly
- Arginine: causes my gyno to flare up and makes my testicles hurt.
- Tribulus or Ashwaganda: both cause my gyno to flare up and takes several days to subside.
- Magneiusm chloride, or magnesium oil; causes an itching sensation all over my body including in my prostate
- Milk thistle: causes pain and burning in my prostate
- Nettle root: causes pain and burning in my prostate

You seem to be evaluating all these supplements you are taking a lot. Maybe it's best you just laid off everything for a while, especially supplements, which at the end of the day are likely to do nothing for us.

This is because zinc will reduce copper if taken regularly. Get your zinc AND copper levels checked after taking zinc regularly. You may need copper added.

If taken sporadically and randomly, then yes.
If taken in association with blood tests, whilst monitoring the knock-on cascade effect of taking each mineral, they will improve health significantly.
You need to think about adequate longterm management of zinc, copper and magnesium for sure.

JN

I had the same symptoms, then they got worse and I started to bleed. Eversince stating VitD3 I have got somewhat normal in that area.

I have similar symptoms. The whole perineum/ prostate area feels dead.

I've been taking some magnesium lately to help my sleep. (around 300mg) before bedtime.
It has helped improve my quality of sleep but I've noticed that it seems to cause swelling around my lips and make my lips look more feminine
So i'm staying off magnesium and hopefully the problem goes away.

I've bought some chinese bitters from sensiblehealth.com and this is my second day of taking it
(take around one teaspoonful per day before breakfast)

I also bought some coptis but might not take any, as it contains Baikal Skullcap which
according to the following thread, has the same effects as 5ar inhibitors:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5611&hilit=coptis

Been off propecia for 14 months now. Quit at beginning of October 2010.
Months 8-11 after quitting appear to be have been the worst for me, but recently I've been doing heavy workouts, bench pressing and heavy squats and i've noticed that i am putting on some muscle.

These workouts seems to have helped my sexual problems. Hopefully this good spell does not disappear.
Gyno is mostly gone but anytime i try to raise testosterone unaturally , i.e. with supplements, i get side effects such as gyno.
So i'll be staying away from supplements, except for lysine every few days which seems to agree with me.
I still need Cialis to have sex confidently.

Only recently have I been able to drink alcohol again. For one year after quitting i have been unable to drink alcohol.
Its unbelievable that Merck do not provide ANY guidance about quitting this drug.

I still have problems with going to the toilet ......

Urine flow is ok, but passing stools is still very problematic for me.
I have been unable to empty my bowels up until recently, when i discovered this website:
http://www.toilet-related-ailments.com/prostate-problems.html

which basically hints that using a conventional toilet is unatural. Squatting is actually the natural position.
This may sound crazy, but for me, squatting is the only way that i can fully empty my bowels.

Whatever propecia has done, it seems to have weakend my rear end area in some way.
If i use a conventional toilet, i definitely have to strain hard.

Very interesting that the website says this about conventional toilets:

===================================================================================
In the sitting position, the pelvic floor is unsupported by the thighs. As a result, each time one strains on the sitting toilet, it is repeatedly forced downwards.

The pelvic floor is simply not designed to cope with this sort of stress and abuse. Each time it is depressed, the pudendal nerve which runs through the pelvic floor is stretched at the same time.

Nerves are not elastic, and studies have shown that a 12% stretch destroys a nerve. This goes for the pudendal nerve, which cannot be stretched very far without being damaged.

===================================================================================



Next week, i go back to see my doctor again for stool test results, adrenal stress test and blood test results.
Will post another update next week.

Been to see my doctor today.

Told him that things are not good at all in the trouser department.
Also i seem to be developing feminizing features around my face and lips which is very concerning.
Whatever propecia has done, it has damaged me really badly.
Hopefully my situation doesn't deteriorate any further?

Strange that i took propecia for over NINE YEARS without any major side effects.
But then one day, completely unexpected, with no warning, i was hit hard with side effects: loss of libido, soft erections and imsomnia.
My life from that day has never been the same.
And quitting the drug just made things worse.


Anyways, back to today:

- My stool test came back normal.
- Adrenal stress test results indicate that my adrenals are stressed.
- Testosterone blood test came back as LOW (for my age)

During the consultation, i told the doctor i was reluctant to try TRT as it may shrink my balls and would prefer to try clomid instead.
I printed the following article and took it along with me to the consultation:
http://www.ergo-log.com/clomiphenehormonetherapy.html

I was referred for a Baseline FBC (Full blood test count) which i will be arranging with my local doctor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_blood_count

Was prescribed:-
- Clomid (25mg every other)
- Cialis 20mg
- Chrysin to control Estrogen
- Nutri Adrenal support
- Digestive enzyme supplements (to improve protein digestion & mineral absorption)
- Time release Vitamin C


Next follow up appointment will be in two months, when i'll have further blood tests for testosterone, estradiol, SHBG etc.

Going to be careful with the clomid as some people have reacted badly to it and there are possible side effects such as vision problems and floaters.
If there is an official 'Clomid experiences' thread anywhere on the forum, please could someone post me a link to it.

Nomiman, are you seeing an NHS doctor?

I am forever baffles as to why guys like you can take the drug for all those years and then as you come off, all hell breaks loose. Something very strange has happened to us, that's for sure.

That sounds like a lot of Clomid. Make sure you keep an eye on your estrogen levels.