PROPECIAHELP: Persistent Finasteride Propecia Proscar side effects info & discussion forum

I believe I am suffering from POST-Finesteride syndrome. I was on FIN for about 1 year and been off for almost 3 years. I start here with what my current issues are and then go into issues that have plagued me at one time or another. I have 3 sections in my History: ON-FIN, ON TRT, NOW. I have been in really bad shape at times, but this year feel pretty good. My story is similar to most. Ive spent about $20K chasing this with HRT but now am trying to do it without that.

Unique things about me are: that I have the lowest 3-ADIOL-G of anyone I have seen here or anywhere. Stopping Rogain and Nizeral helped my brain-fog and fatigue. I am older than most of you (50). I was perhaps oversexed PRE-FIN (10 times in 1 night - 30 times in a weekend and lasted for hours) I always sort of had psuedo GYNO (i wonder if anyone has looked at what things there might be in common about us that made us endrochronolically suseptable to this - thats why i mention those last 2 things)

Since I have good and bad days its tough to say what treatments help and I have no idea where I was to begin with pre-fin, bloodwork wise.


Currently my issues are:
- loose scrotum - testicals and penis seem visibly distended. (like some breeds of dogs where genetailia seems barely connected)
- loss of libido
- hydrocole & varicole (wonder if these injuries are related to loose scrotum)
- orgasms often not pleasurable
- No spontaniouse erections - few morning erections - erections pivot at the base
- iregular shape at base of penis - loss of girth near base

Lab results out of range:
* low 3-ADIOL-G ( concerned that finasteride may have permanently downregulated 5 alpha reductase (5AR) activity)
* low "free testostorine"
* low thyroid
* high estrogin
* high glucose

I am using the following meds daily:
Tamaoxifen 2.5 MG
Cytomel 12.5 mcg
Synthroid 50 mcg

I am using the following supplements:
L-Arginine / Ornithine
Acetyl-L-Carnitine
L-Tyrosine
Vitamin-D (5000iu)
Vitamin-E (200iu)
ZMA (Zinc/Magnesium/B6)
Lutein/Zeaxanthin/Bilberry (for vision)
L-Glutamine

Have also experimented with:
Fenugreek Seed (natural testosterone booster)
MACA
Tribulus
Horney Goat Weed
Crysin

Other Factors:
-When I recently stopped Rogain/Nizeral the fatigue and Brain fog dissapeared - this was near the time I started Thyroid meds
-I stopped/ started FIN several times.
-I happen to be middle aged so of course my symptoms have been attributed to my age by most doctors.
-I have been to GP, 2 urologists, 2 endros and anti-aging doctor.
-I have had sex with some large women and perahps casued some injury without even knowing it


Recent Bloodwork:
- 3-ADIOL-G 183 ng/dll ref range 260 - 1500
- T = 743
- free T = 78.4
- %free T = 1.05 (Still LOW)
- Estridol = 51 ref range 13-54 pg / ml (its been as high as 102 last fall and as low as 36 in December) TOO HIGH





In the past my symptoms have been:

Fatigue (thyroid meds kind of cured this....for now)

Loss of libido (T + GH + HCG) had helped withthis but they had their own set of issues)

Orgasms are not pleasurable

Ogasms do not feel like a full pumping from within, but feel localized, like a smaller contraction within (hard to explain)

carpural penis syndrom (my name for this) penis is plenty erect - but feels constricted and ejaculation is not pleasurable and is thwarted.***** (i noticed is while on HumanGrowthHormone and wondered if it is not a cousin of carporal tunnel syndrome which is a known side of HGH)

Time warp (brain fog - its where I lose track of hours on end as I wander in my own mind)

Vision issues (macular degeneration

Vision Issues (extreme sensitive to sunlight)

aches and pains below the waste - especially testicals and penis (at times)

testicals and penis seem visibly distended. (like some breeds of dogs where genetailia seems barely connected)

varicole in testical (ultrasound)

hydrocole in other testicular (ultrasound)

veins and bulges in penis

nodes on thyroid (ultrasound)

anxiety in even normail social situations

panic attacks in the night (bad enough to go to ER)

no body oder (dont even buy deodorant any more)

penis narrowed at base but not in middle or near head - causes some pivoting (ON FIN Base of penis got thin (like a ribbon)

2 half ring bulges on left side of penis

divet - or reduction in circumference at the base on the left side of Penis

Difficulty getting confortable sitting on a hard chair or floor - aching in butt, testicals and the space between




HISTORY

On FIN
- T was 400
- was anemic
- low DHT (of course)


Hormone Replacement Therapy Phase when I stopped FIN
- Chased the fatigue separately at the time I stopped FIN and went to anti aging doctor. Protocol was: T + HCG + HGH + Crysin + DHEA + Thyroid.

Allthough this made me feel good, I had some issues with it in and do not want to be on this for life if at all possible. I belive the Growth Hormane created a constricvted feeling in the erect penis which thwarted orgasms. (i cant prove this though) Crysin failed to reduce estridol levels and at one point I was as high as Estidol-102 when I stopped the hormones.

T and Available T did come up to good levels but FREE-T is still very low

E was always still high (Crysin did not really work)

Creatine was high (no sure why - maybe the T i was taking was hard on kidney/liver?)

had high mercury in one test

liver enzimes were off while on T


NOW:

I am currently weaned off almost everything and have opted for ordinary pharmaceutical company thyroid meds (cytomel & sytharoid) and this has fixed the fatigue and depression.

Started Novadex earlier this year (tamoxofin) to lower E and it made me feel good but made it impossible to achieve orgasm so I stopped it. Started back up last week after reducing Thyroid meds and have not had this orgasm issue (yet)

My lab results have varied over the last couple of years especially on HRT, but "low available T" and "low thyroid" and "high estradol seem like the trend.

DHT became normal after stopping FIN and my anemia went away then also.

Libido is still not where it used to be although the functionality is there.

I am interested in natural T boosters and natural estrogen inhibitors but am wanting to see if I can get thru this without any more boiidentical stuff or meds. I am going to try to gradually reduce the Thyroid meds if the last results are otherwise ok and see how low i can go or if my body's T3 & T4 will gradually come back.

Recently added ZINC and this has helped with testicular aches (i think)

Since I have good and bad days its tough to say what treatments help and I have no idea where I was to begin with pre-fin, bloodwork wise.

Might want to ask your doctor about taking a low dose of arimidex..may alleviate your issues...

Also test for FT3, FT4, and Reverse T3.

Adjust thyroid meds if you need to, and then retest hormones along with androstanedol gluc.

Good Guess Anonn1. Went to see doctor Goldstein and he put me on clomophine & anastrozole. He also gave me the DEVISTATING NEWS. Just during the year when I thought I had been rising up from the brain fog and fatigue. My carprol penis syndrome (my name) is actually : SIGNIFIGANT PEYRONIES. He identified a tangible cordlike structure running from the tip, down way into beyond where either of our fingers could go. Also revlealed to me that there is virtually no sensation in the head or sides. (heat-cold-vibration) Also: virtually all ligimant over the pelvis is deteriorated away.

Not sure what my next move is at this point. Try to Boost the hormones to try to fix the envoronment that allowed the peyronies to thrive....or....aggresssivly try to treat it separatly.

I'm now taking more drugs from doctors in an attempt to try to fix something caused by a drug from a doctor.

At this point I'm not even trying to get to where I was before FIN...I just want to arrest the progress of the damage. Everytime I "manage" one symptom....something else comes up.

_________________
My story - $20K of HRT and I have the lowest 3-ADIOL-G of anyone here - AND NOW: PEYRONIES

http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3941

Question has come up from a couple of you as to why i stopped HRT last year. I stopped because:

1) i implicate it in possibly having exasserbating the situation (especially peyronies) with growth hormone especially

2) i started way to soon after stopping FIN

3) Its a life long committment

And mostly: I had no great answer for the doctors who asked: why are you so sure that your issues are from FIN which has little controversy, and yet you bang hormones into your body, and this has HUGE CONTROVERSY. The suggestion was that perhaps the Hormones were responsible for my mess rather, than the FIN.

I had been hopeing to "dry out" and see what doing NOTHING felt like and was feeling quite good this year, when 2 things got me back to looking for more interventions:

1) I did the 3-Adiol-G test (twice now) and so far I'm lower than anyone on the planet.

2) discomfort in the penis/testicals got my to seeing urologist and I learned about the peyronies and testical issues.

I'm a bit lost now (once again) beause the endro has me on thryroid meds and the uro has me on clomide/arimedex to try to pull up DHT and subsiquently 3-adiol-g. My big issue now is the peyronnies which i dont seem to be being treated for as far as i can see.
Its got me scared as hell because there is also numbness and the prognosis for peyronnies seems to be pretty bleak from what i have seen on thier forum.

I may try cialis just to get blood going down there - but th at has the effect of reduding sensation even more (for me anyway)

_________________
My story - $20K of HRT and I have the lowest 3-ADIOL-G of anyone here - AND NOW: PEYRONIES

http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3941

I am going on T cream and viagra (low dose) to try to help the numbness (per Dr. G). Dr G. says the T cream administered locally will not effect global T levels, but I wonder? I am on clomaphine and armidex and wonder about the T cream. Anyone use these treatments?

I have hyroccole on one side, varicole on the other side, peyronies and also the suspension ligiment is all but withered away.I am good mechanically, but have way reduced sensation (as in : I have to look with my eyes to validate that I am still erect and penetrating partner.

I am wondering if blood flow could be the common denominator and am going on T cream and low dose viagra to see if it helps.

_________________
My story - $20K of HRT and I have the lowest 3-ADIOL-G of anyone here - AND NOW: PEYRONIES

http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3941

I'm in the same boat: Peyronie's. I'm also taking 1/4 Viagra (or 1/2 Cialis) to keep the blood flowing. I don't think it makes much of a difference ...

Please keep updating.

I have been off site for a while but here is update:

Still on clomiphine citrate, arimidex, T-cream adminsted directly on genitals and when i can remember it small dose viagra to get blood flow going.

I aslo use alot of suppliments, mostly because people belive they help with the peyronies.

I am much much better today than years 1,2 and 3 (this is year 5). most of the fatigue brain fog and spacyness is gone or dimished to workable levels. I am not the "go-getter" i was pre-fin, but i am also not sleeping 11 hours a day and waking up tired, as was the case in year 2 and 3.

The penile fibrosis was the nightmare diagnosis from hell and the numbness is something that I have yet to really come to terms with. I have not made up my mind on libido yet. All these "downers" would tend to be mood killers, so i am not sure my "lack of drive" is not perheps any worse than anyone else going thru alot of stress. I cant complain to much though because 2 years ago i just wanted the brain fog and depression and fatigue to be gone and be able to be invested in SOME aspects of life.

I want to get off some of the meds but doctor G. says the DHT level is still low.

Anyway, i dont know what things helped, which were usless, or which harmed me more, but my gut gut feeling is: that TIME alone got me to the place where the "phiscal sex organ issues" were the only "big ticket" items left.

I will update again when i get off some of these meds or if something changes.

_________________
My story - $20K of HRT and I have the lowest 3-ADIOL-G of anyone here - AND NOW: PEYRONIES

http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3941

Thanks for your update, hopefully things will continue to improve for you. Look forward to your next update.

_________________
PROPECIAHELP - PERSISTENT FINASTERIDE SIDE EFFECTS
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Can you tell me just what you're doing on dosage and application of T cream?

What is the dosage, dosing schedule, and where exactly are you applying it? Head, shaft, testicles, perineum?

1. I agree that the high sex drive in many seem to be a connection. In reality though it doesn't mean much. Most of us likely had a high sex drive because we had high DHT or were sensitive to it. This is also the reason we went on 5ar inhibitors in the first place i.e. balding, prostate, etc.

2. I also used to get the skinnier at the base/bottom part of the penis as well as larger/darker veins.

3. Chysin will not lower your e2 if taken orally. It will if taken topically, but is not very strong. Novadex/Tamoxifen also will not systematically lower E2, it actually may raise it. It does however lower E2 in target tissues such as breasts. Your best bet is Arimidex/Anastrozole.

4. What is the free testosterone range? If you are low in free T (but good in total) then your SHBG or Albumine are high. This can be treated easily.

5. How much did TRT help with libido? Quit a bit? This is very contrary to what most other PFS guys notice.

6. T cream used locally will systematically raise testosterone. It really scares me that your doctor thinks otherwise.

7. You need to get Reverse T3 tested and most importantly a 24 hour urinary cortisol test. Also if possible Vit D and 1, 25 Vit D.

Hi QuestionGuy, I have a couple things to say:
1. At least you had a good few decades. I've wasted my prime.

2. It's interesting that you say you have "no body oder". While I was on propecia, my body odour had a weak and bland smell to it, it smelled completely off to what I had normally before. I lacked a certain scent most white/black adults have in their sweat. I don't know if this was because I was exercising/working out a lot, I used to be do heavy activity. Since I've gone off the drug I can say that I smell like stinky BO and fart, and my antiperspirant can quit halfway through the day.