PROPECIAHELP: Persistent Finasteride Propecia Proscar side effects info & discussion forum

Forum for men with PERSISTENT sexual, mental & physical side effects which CONTINUE DESPITE QUITTING Finasteride (Propecia, Proscar), a 5AR inhibitor drug for hair loss, prostate enlargement & prostate cancer.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:33 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:10 am
Posts: 28
Age: 29
Drug: Propecia
Usage: 2 years
Started: 01 Jan 2010
Stopped: 01 Apr 2012
Location: USA
I will keep this short as possible. I took propecia for about 2 years. I started getting severe pain and aching in the testicles. Then muscle twitching. Ejaculate volume decreased and turned watery and yellowish. Testicles began to shrink.

I got off Propecia. I recovered for 2-3 weeks, more ejaculate volume and it was normal and white. No aching in testicles. It was like a flood of sexual arousal was pouring back into me. Full blown erections in the morning and everything like that.

Then I crashed. I noticed every day less and less arousal. Testicles began to ache and shrink horribly. My testicles are less than half the size they used to be. They feel castrated, only few drops come out when I ejaculate. Erections happen but are very weak and getting worse by the day. Now EXTREME sleepiness and fatigue has set in.

I've been to 2 urologists, both have no clue. This is way beyond a regular Joe Blow doctor. Any recommendations on what kind of doctor to see or anything I can do to stop this? I live in Dallas, Texas. I can't believe this, Finasteride might as well be rat poison.

PLEASE IF ANYONE HAS ANY ADVICE PLEASE SHARE ASAP. MY TESTICLES ARE CONTINUING TO SHRINK AND EJACULATE IS NEARING NOTHING. I NEED HELP AND ADVICE!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:00 pm 
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Posts: 304
Age: 35
Drug: Propecia
Usage: 9 years
Started: 01 Jun 2002
Stopped: 03 Oct 2010
Location: EU
Deuce wrote:
I will keep this short as possible. I took propecia for about 2 years. I started getting severe pain and aching in the testicles. Then muscle twitching. Ejaculate volume decreased and turned watery and yellowish. Testicles began to shrink.

I got off Propecia. I recovered for 2-3 weeks, more ejaculate volume and it was normal and white. No aching in testicles. It was like a flood of sexual arousal was pouring back into me. Full blown erections in the morning and everything like that.

Then I crashed. I noticed every day less and less arousal. Testicles began to ache and shrink horribly. My testicles are less than half the size they used to be. They feel castrated, only few drops come out when I ejaculate. Erections happen but are very weak and getting worse by the day. Now EXTREME sleepiness and fatigue has set in.

I've been to 2 urologists, both have no clue. This is way beyond a regular Joe Blow doctor. Any recommendations on what kind of doctor to see or anything I can do to stop this? I live in Dallas, Texas. I can't believe this, Finasteride might as well be rat poison.

PLEASE IF ANYONE HAS ANY ADVICE PLEASE SHARE ASAP. MY TESTICLES ARE CONTINUING TO SHRINK AND EJACULATE IS NEARING NOTHING. I NEED HELP AND ADVICE!


Deuce, many guys on here have testicular shrinkage.
My right testicle is still in bad shape and i quit finasteride around two years ago.

The only things i have found helpful with testicular size is taking zinc and copper, however the zinc /copper ratio needs to be correct.
I usually take 25mg Zinc Picolinate and 4mg Copper every other day.

Also, as you are suffering from fatigue this may indicate an adrenal issue in which case you should consider checking your cortisol levels via a 24hr salivary cortisol test.
Do you have plans to see one of the PFS doctors? Dr Crisler or Shippen?
You can find their contact details in the doctors section here:
viewforum.php?f=12

Also if you have not already done so, please fill out one of the members template as outlined here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=371

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:21 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:43 pm
Posts: 74
Age: 0
Drug: Propecia
Usage: 7 months
Started: 28 Feb 2010
Stopped: 28 Sep 2010
Location: uk
Deuce,

It sounds like you have crashed unfortunately, the 3 week mark after cessation seems like the most common time for this to happen and it's happened to me twice now, once after quitting finasteride and once after fully recovering with tamoxifen.

I would urge you to get hold of some tamoxifen and give that a try, just on it's own. You can read my posts and my experience with tamoxifen and judge by yourself whether you wish to or not. It may be crucial to try this treatment soon after you crash but i'll leave it with you. Just like crashing and the onset of symptoms being fairly instantaneous, so was my recovery, after the 1st tamoxifen tablet.

If it works for you and your get your sexual, mental and physical prowess back then hallelujah. After that, i'm not sure what the best thing to do is. I stayed on tamoxifen for 3 weeks then crashed again. Maybe the best thing to do is to stop taking it after a week or so and try and keep calm, lead a healthy lifestyle, lot's of sleep etc. like everyone suggests when you are coming off finasteride and trying to avoid a crash in the 1st place.

If you don't get any benefit from tamoxifen after a couple of weeks or so, it probably isn't going to work for you and i would just quit. At that point you could try things such as Noniman has suggested and you may get some improvement in your symptoms. In terms of a full blown recovery, you are probably then looking to Awor's studies for some answers and hopefully a cure. There are some members looking into things like stem cell treatment's.

I don't believe all is lost, so keep your chin up and keep the forum updated on your situation as and when you feel is appropriate.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:29 pm 
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Age: 31
Drug: Propecia
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Started: 15 Jan 2006
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Location: earth
See if you can get some hcg or even better hmg. Run it for 3-4 weeks then clomid for a few weeks. This basically what steroids users to jump start their balls after a cycle... For some reason it doesn't work well for most of us here thou. But its all I can recommend.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:06 am 
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Posts: 2610
Broken_Pecker and Notcrashedyet how many people have you seen recovered after using Tamxofine or HCG? Tell me honestly do you really think HCG/tomaxofen or Clomid can cure our condition mainly shrunken Testicles?Do you really think our problem is that simple?
I can tell you Deuce if you used HCG your balls will become bigger but you will get zero benefit, maybe you will see a huge increase in Estrogen and maybe you will get gyno. No body knows any think about PFS yet.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:17 am 
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Age: 31
Drug: Propecia
Usage: Off and on
Started: 15 Jan 2006
Stopped: 27 Jun 2006
Location: earth
Sp,

Did you even read my post? I said it hasn't worked for many people here. I only know of one guy who used hcg and it worked. It didn't work for me... I am just pulling it out because its a option at a time when we don't have many.

I hate the testicluar shrinkage its the worst side effect next to the mental ones. If I knew any definite way to fix it I would tell him.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:24 am 
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Posts: 74
Age: 0
Drug: Propecia
Usage: 7 months
Started: 28 Feb 2010
Stopped: 28 Sep 2010
Location: uk
I'll keep this short and simple as i've written about this at length in my other posts. When i crashed i searched the board for a cure. I found many people supporting early drug intervention, mainly Clomid. There were 'claimed recoveries' by members Dury and Labrea via these methods. I was dubious about these stories but there was nothing else to go on. 3 months after crashing i took my my first tamoxifen 20mg tablet. It was amazing, it cured all my symptoms within about 30 mins. For 3 weeks this was a full recovery. Then i crashed again - i'm not sure if this was because i was busy and stressed again or because i was still taking tamoxifen still or because it was going to happen anyway. I was left with pretty much every symptom again, but not nearly as bad as before. That's all i know on the matter. There hasn't been many reported recoveries or reversal of symptoms. I'm not sure there are that many people who have crashed who have tried tamoxifen early after crashing, as most seem to go for clomid judging from what i've read on the board ie within 0-6months. I can only vouch for what has happened to me, it is a pretty unbelievable story as our condition seems so dreadful and complicated that i'm sure many people think it is probably incurable, i know i did when i crashed. I can only spread the word and hope it helps future crashers which would then be very useful to the board hopefully f they could replicate my results. Tamoxifen has no effect on me now and that's why i think for some reason, you may only get one shot at it, and this is only possible during the early months after crashing. Just like something seemed to be 'switched off' when we crashed, something was 'switched on' again when i took tamoxifen. I know nothing of clomid or HCG. I am only interested in SERM's, as i believe there is a possibility that by the drug acting on the estrogen receptor and blocking estrogen in my body, it awakened my androgen receptor's to androgens again. This is just a theory obviously, but if our problem is because of some sort of androgen insensitivity, it seems a plausible one.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:00 am 
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Notcrashedyet,
I have taken tamoxifen for a week and I am worse than before. I wish I had not taken it.
Everybody reacts differently. I really have no idea why it works for some and why it makes others worse.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:08 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:18 pm
Posts: 401
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Guys - I suggest we keep all the protocols and discussion under the small ball club thread. In this way newbies know whee to look and hopefully collectively we find something...

BTW for me tamox did zippo for ball size, same with arimidex, I have some clomid but have not taken yet...

Type alpha blockers restore the scrotum hang, not necessarily ball size - however, I have days where my tiny shrunken non functioning prostrate relaes and testicle size returns (probably to 75-80% of prior normal state). These days are somewhat random....


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:43 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:43 pm
Posts: 74
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Drug: Propecia
Usage: 7 months
Started: 28 Feb 2010
Stopped: 28 Sep 2010
Location: uk
Deuce, maybe you haven't crashed, maybe you are just having an adverse reaction to coming off the drug that may resolve in time. I'm only saying that because you talk mostly about your testicles and then later you began notice sleepiness and fatigue.

When i crashed it was my balls AND MY PENIS that shrunk within seconds as if they were going to go inside my body. At the point and over the the rest of the night, i had the 'draining feeling' and felt like a zombie, couldn't sleep, kept pissing. The next day you are still a zombie, disconnection between genitals and brain, no sensitivity down there, with extreme fatigue, slow cognitive function, shrunken genitals (that either droop or are tight to body). In time you get weight gain, insomnia and depression. Erections are rare and weak. What i am saying is i got everything at once including one's that you haven't mentioned - is this a similar experience for you or not? Or have you seen a gradual appearance and worsening of your symptoms?

Keepup and Scaredtodeath, how long after crashing did you take tamoxifen?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:23 pm 
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notcrashedyet wrote:
I'll keep this short and simple as i've written about this at length in my other posts. When i crashed i searched the board for a cure. I found many people supporting early drug intervention, mainly Clomid. There were 'claimed recoveries' by members Dury and Labrea via these methods.

Labrea never recovered. He just got his T level up viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2505&p=35958#p35958
if you think by taking your T level up you will be cured then Awor and Whalen72 should never be here. They were on TRT any way before starting Fin.
Please search this forum for clomid. here many users have tried it and some regret using it very much.It gave them eye problems mainly floarters.
if our body is not creating T it is doing for some reason, there is nothing wrong with our balls. you can verify it by taking external T. you will not get any benefit, maybe will get manboobs or chest fat. I have been on TRT for 10 weeks. Contact Vincent here. he has stopped TRT. To-Robin also used TRT for many months he stopped too.
our problem is not T related, that just by doing little plumbing in balls, water (T) will start flowing again.
you can try vitamin D. for some people including me it gave good results. I got my balls better and T up and chest flat. It is not as bad as it was before. But again it is a good band aid not the solution.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:18 pm
Posts: 401
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
10 months before I tried nolva/tamox


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:13 pm 
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Drug: Propecia
Usage: 7 months
Started: 28 Feb 2010
Stopped: 28 Sep 2010
Location: uk
SP. - I just referenced Labrea and Dury as they were being banded about as recovery stories when they had used Clomid early after crashing or acquiring symptoms. They were the only hopeful recovery stories to go on. Like i say, i was dubious about how accurate or relevant these stories were. I still am as i have no experience with using Clomid nor do i wish to use it. It works completely different to Tamoxifen, i think. Tamoxifen acts on the estrogen receptors i believe and blocks off estrogenic effects in the body. It is that part which i believe may have induced my recovery, not the fact that it also increases testosterone as well. I am not for any minute suggesting increasing testosterone can cure anyone. I am suggesting that by blocking off estrogenic effects in my body, my body somehow started responding to androgens again as was the case pre-crash - as if my androgen receptors had become re-activated.

STD. - I took tamoxifen 3 months after crashing, the difference in the length of time you take it post-crash, is what i am suggesting may be a pivotal point. The longer you wait, it may be that the body or the receptors become accustomed to the new hormone levels or to the extent the receptors activated. Tamoxifen has no use for me now, i've tried experimenting with it, but it properly makes me feel worse as it is such a strong drug, strong enough to prevent breast cancer.

It is reasonable to suggest that all our problems are a result of our androgens or receptors not working properly or having become de-activated. This is basically the same thing as Awor is suggesting i think, where we have a silenced AR signal.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:38 pm 
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Drug: Propecia
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Started: 28 Feb 2010
Stopped: 28 Sep 2010
Location: uk
Just to clarify the differences on clomid, tamoxifen and SERMs, i'll attempt a simplified explanation of their mechanisms of action as i've read up a little bit more on them. Both clomid and tamoxifen are SERMs. Both bind competitively to estrogen receptor sites, thus blocking estrogen effects in the body. Clomid has been shown to work on receptor sites in limited areas of the body, mainly on the hypothalamus and pituitary where as tamoxifen and other SERM's work on sites in multiple tissue areas of the body (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc030651). Both substances also increase gonadotrophin's (LH and FSH) which increases testosterone production.

I'm going to try and experiment with different SERMs as they all work differently in terms of their agonistic and antagonistic properties in different tissues of the body. This would be more relevant for long term sufferers.

Deuce, i can only recommend Tamoxifen based on the experience i had. Whatever the mechanism of action, the results were plain to see and that is all that should really matter in my eyes. So if you believe you have crashed, i'll leave it with you in terms of this being a possible treatment option.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:27 am 
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Posts: 28
Age: 29
Drug: Propecia
Usage: 2 years
Started: 01 Jan 2010
Stopped: 01 Apr 2012
Location: USA
Tamoxifen might be an option. Where did you read about it as possible treatment?

Guys, my testicles are continuing to shrink. My ejaculate gets lesser and lesser in volume. As does my libido.

Something is killing my testicles off. Is there anything else that can be done or recommended? This is unbelievable, I can't believe this is happening to me.

At this rate I will have no testicles.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:20 pm 
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Age: 35
Drug: Propecia
Usage: 9 years
Started: 01 Jun 2002
Stopped: 03 Oct 2010
Location: EU
Deuce wrote:
Tamoxifen might be an option. Where did you read about it as possible treatment?

Guys, my testicles are continuing to shrink. My ejaculate gets lesser and lesser in volume. As does my libido.

Something is killing my testicles off. Is there anything else that can be done or recommended? This is unbelievable, I can't believe this is happening to me.

At this rate I will have no testicles.


Tamoxifen is used to treat gynecomastia, a common side effect of propecia:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3526085

Some forum members have reported benefits with taking tamoxifen, e.g.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5594

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:30 pm 
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Age: 31
Drug: Propecia
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Started: 15 Jan 2006
Stopped: 27 Jun 2006
Location: earth
Deuce wrote:
Tamoxifen might be an option. Where did you read about it as possible treatment?

Guys, my testicles are continuing to shrink. My ejaculate gets lesser and lesser in volume. As does my libido.

Something is killing my testicles off. Is there anything else that can be done or recommended? This is unbelievable, I can't believe this is happening to me.

At this rate I will have no testicles.


Get your fertility checked bro...


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:24 pm 
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Posts: 85
Age: 40
Drug: Proscar
Usage: 8yrs
Started: 05 Aug 2002
Stopped: 05 Aug 2010
Location: Minnesota USA
Broken_Pecker wrote:
Sp,
I hate the testicluar shrinkage its the worst side effect next to the mental ones.


I don't mean to be insensitive but I really don't get how this can be your worst side effect -besides mental.
Like any man I would like big balls but they seem quite insignificant in the larger scheme of things. Id trade my balls for sensation in my penis, the ability to get an erection, libido, or to have the pain in my perineum go away any day. I wouldnt loose a single nights sleep over it.
Not discounting others pain, I just really don't get it.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:03 pm 
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Age: 29
Drug: Propecia
Usage: 2 years
Started: 01 Jan 2010
Stopped: 01 Apr 2012
Location: USA
Tlecum wrote:
Broken_Pecker wrote:
Sp,
I hate the testicluar shrinkage its the worst side effect next to the mental ones.


I don't mean to be insensitive but I really don't get how this can be your worst side effect -besides mental.
Like any man I would like big balls but they seem quite insignificant in the larger scheme of things. Id trade my balls for sensation in my penis, the ability to get an erection, libido, or to have the pain in my perineum go away any day. I wouldnt loose a single nights sleep over it.
Not discounting others pain, I just really don't get it.

Unfortunately, as my testicles have shrunk my other conditions have gotten worse. The smaller my testicles get, the less ejaculate and libido I have.

Now even worse than my sex drive and testicles going away is my sleepiness and fatigue.

I am sleepy 24/7 and am now entering a "fog" like state. My eyes do not focus as well and it takes a bit longer to lock onto something. My eyes literally want to "space out" 24/7 now. It takes effort just to keep them in focus. I am so sleepy and fatigued it is almost impossible to make it through the day.

This is all AFTER getting off this rat poison. Muscle twitches are getting worse. My body is just straight up wrecked, I am f#$%#@ it seems.

I'm not depressed and still have my mental clarity. I just am in a haze and sleepy all damn day. I have accepted the fact my testicles are wrecked as is my sex drive. Being in a fog and VERY sleepy 24/7 is unacceptable. I cannot function at work or or do ANYTHING I used to without severe effort and just fighting through the sleepiness and fatigue.

Before getting off this stuff I was energetic and have a Director role at a company. I can't even function at work. Doctors have no idea what is wrong. This stuff has ruined me.

But I will say I'd rather be alive than dead, so I will keep fighting.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:54 pm 
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Age: 31
Drug: Propecia
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Started: 15 Jan 2006
Stopped: 27 Jun 2006
Location: earth
Tlecum wrote:
Broken_Pecker wrote:
Sp,
I hate the testicluar shrinkage its the worst side effect next to the mental ones.


I don't mean to be insensitive but I really don't get how this can be your worst side effect -besides mental.
Like any man I would like big balls but they seem quite insignificant in the larger scheme of things. Id trade my balls for sensation in my penis, the ability to get an erection, libido, or to have the pain in my perineum go away any day. I wouldnt loose a single nights sleep over it.
Not discounting others pain, I just really don't get it.


Simply because my fertility is jacked up cuz of the testicles being shrunk. I would like to have children one day.


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