PROPECIAHELP: Persistent Finasteride Propecia Proscar side effects info & discussion forum

Forum for men with PERSISTENT sexual, mental & physical side effects which CONTINUE DESPITE QUITTING Finasteride (Propecia, Proscar), a 5AR inhibitor drug for hair loss, prostate enlargement & prostate cancer.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:43 am 
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Age: 29
Drug: Propecia
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i found your thread very interesting and i was wondering if you think this could be a problem with P450 cytochromes, because they can lead to excessive aromatase.

If this is true, it could also be the reason behind too much cholesterol and too little allopregnanolone?

Have you checked the thread about p450?

maybe you can ask your doctor about it, if this makes sense to you. he seems like a good doc

my theory, and again its just a theory, is that fina altered genetic expression of some existing problematic gene mutations we had, and now we can't turn them of.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:55 pm 
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Age: 36
Drug: Propecia
Location: Detroit
This is a really interesting thread. Do you think that CDnuts' original theory and treatment (back in 2008) of Quercitin + DIM to "get control of his estrogen levels" may mimic the use of letrozole? Going back and reading his early posts, this was the first time he felt any sexual improvement as well. I'm thinking about recreating that regimen, and if not helping after a couple of months, then seeing an endo regarding legendary's protocol. Just wondering if anyone had any thoughts? My symptoms seem to mirror legendary's perfectly, as I was on the stuff for over 9 years.

Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:07 pm 
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Posts: 157
Age: 35
Drug: Dutasteride
Usage: 8 years
Started: 01 Jan 2002
Stopped: 10 Dec 2011
Location: UK
Good to see you're still updating legendary and feeling well! :P

What's your letro dose these days. I had my 10% normal libido wiped out for 6 weeks after using letro whenever the hell it was. 6 months ago or so.

I started working out and my test went up to top third of normal range and I felt better but only about 30% libido. No real electricity so to speak. I wonder if I need to be supraphysiological to feel right. May try lower dose of letro again. Never gonna go on clomid again. Had some extremely bad moments. Like I wanted to scream at times. Like a hysterical women having a breakdown. Never had that in my life even under major long term stress.

Anyway really good to hear things are going well for you bud. Peace out!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:52 am
Posts: 274
Age: 35
Drug: Proscar
Usage: 18 months
Started: 02 Jun 2004
Stopped: 16 Jun 2006
Location: Canada
legendary wrote:
Advice for others:

If, like I did, you have symptoms and profile of secondary hypo, I'd suggest trying Letrozole on its own as a first step. Test before, try it for a couple weeks, retest and track your progress through a daily diary. If you're lucky enough to do this via an awesome Endo like I was, then great. But I'd suggest that as a first step, before Clomid. the side-effects of Let have barely been noticable. Side effects of high-dosage Clomid are dramatic.

Good luck guys, chat soon


Thanks for keeping us updated, Legendary.

I dosed clomid for about 3 months. On a 10 point scale, it took me from a 0 to about a 2. Beneficial, but not worth continuing. Amongst the bodybuilding community, the link between estrogen and testosterone is well known. Also key - the window estrogen needs to reside in (not too high, or too low) to maintain pro-sexual effects. Some say the window is between 10-30 pg/ml. Others go by nocturnal, morning wood, and libido. Seems you found the sweetspot.

For anxiety, I take 50 mg of pregnenolone everyday. It's a steroid hormone, but predominately a neurosteroid (most receptors found in the brain, not muscle tissue). Works very similar to benzodiazpenes (upregulates gaba receptors). I found it to be very effective for both physical and mental anxiety. I would encourage you to try this. It's very cheap.

I plan to try aromasin or letrozole if my current run of Diesel Test Hardcore isn't helpful. Likely high estrogen plays a big role for us. And you obviously had great benefit.

All the best.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:29 am 
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Age: 35
Drug: Propecia
Usage: 3 months
Started: 06 Mar 2013
Stopped: 10 Jun 2013
Location: DC
You story is legendary, no sarcasm, good to hear, and it is so nice of you to keep everyone updated.
We all know that some recoverers disappear with no news (although less on this forum it seems).

Two things to say from my side:

1- you seem to be concerned about shrinkage, the way you describe it is something of a "hard flaccid", since you say it is the kind of thing one gets after swimming in the antarctic waters, except you get it on normal occasions, and stressful situations/days.

If this is the case, then you would be glad to know that a lot of people have resolved this through physical therapy, meditation, reduction of stress. I think a big player here (if not the only) is the muscles... I used to have this, now it is almost gone, except just like you on some stressful occasions...

Try this: stretch your hamstrings by reaching for your feet... does it make this go away?
NOTE: I am not saying that PFS issue is muscular, just this "hard flaccid" thing

2- How about the numbness? Is this waxing and waning? This is my biggest issue. Do you feel this numbness as objective or subjective. If you pinch (or pinched, in case you recovered) the tissue of your penis would you feel less compared to other parts of your body. for me it is YES. This is a horrific feeling, to have your penis all but dead.


thx


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:17 am 
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Posts: 76
I have been on clomid and arimidex for about 3 years with no breaks and no cycling. Low dose though: 100mg per week clomide and 2mg per week arimidex. I believe this has helped with fatigue and brain fog but I cannot say it has returned sexual pleasure. I am in the same boat as legendary in that I am reluctant to go to the trouble of wooing a female into a sexual encounter only to have to deal with any of these issues. The few encounters I have had over the last 8 years have turned out ok, in the sense that I "performed" and the women got pleasure, but the use of a condom pretty much nullifies what sensation I do have, so I believe my sex life may have to shift to more manual stimulation and/or non-covered sex .

IDEA: There is a service within the world of professional escorting known as FBSM("Full Body Sensual Massage") As far as I can see this is for providers and customers who have opted for "safe" activities where there is a great deal of stimulation but no actual intercourse Apparently some of these women are quite good at what they do and some specialize in ED and other issues. I mention this because I relate to the stage fright being descried in this thread, and this might be a good interim step in "relearning" how sex will be executed in our new POST-FIN lives. Like physical therapy for accident victims. Anyway, it might be better than the anxiety experienced when one is wondering what will happen when its SHOW-TIME with someone you have gone to great lengths to seduce.

Question: Anyone know what are the known toxic effects of long term clomid and arimidex use. I saw that mentioned here.

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My story - $20K of HRT and I have the lowest 3-ADIOL-G of anyone here - AND NOW: PEYRONIES

http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3941


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:01 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:47 am
Posts: 53
Age: 34
Drug: Proscar
Usage: 12 years
Started: 01 Mar 2000
Stopped: 15 Dec 2011
Location: South Africa
Hey guys,

Apologies for the delay in updating this thread, it's been a truly crazy few weeks at work...

xptriado: I don't know anything about P450, but will chat to my Endo if I see him again...

logntimeuser: haven't tried Quertcitin / DIM, only have experience with letrozole...

Deadballs: I've been doing 1.25mg let 5x per week, 2.5 2x per week...hope you're well dude

tumbleweeds: Thanks for the pregnenolone tip, I'll do some research into that, but the anxiety feels under control at the moment...

numbduck: Thanks for the shrinkage insights.The hamstring trick does make a difference, it seems to loosen things up.

Numbness has mostly gone away, but I'd also say the penis isn't as sensitive as the rest of my body. I'm also circumcised though, so that may be a factor. I recommend looking into Manhood (like a silk sock for your dick) and using shea butter if you're circumcised, seems to help with sensitivity

Questionguy: I wouldn't want to be on Clomid long-term. The mental sides of that were pretty dramatic for me.

As for sexual anxiety, the really good news here is that I'm finally sexually active again. Just took the plunge and went for it instead of running for the hills. Everything is fine, mojo is strong, endurance strong, control not so great, understandably. I do feel I've lost some size, both flaccid and erect, say about 20%, but still a good size so hasn't affected anything really. Hopefully will return with more use. Shrinkage still happens, but it freaks me out a lot less now, because I know he still shows up when the battle cry rings out. So that's been very positive for confidence and outlook, was deeply worried about this before.

I've been so hectically busy over the past few weeks that I haven't managed to keep track of things in detail, but can say that work stress definitely negatively affects anxiety levels and shrinkage levels. But again, it feels under control and he still shows up for sexy time which is great. The electricity / intensity feels much as before. This has alleviated a lot of stress for me, since it was a big unknown factor...

Hope you guys are well, will do some more tests at some point, but for now things feel pretty good...any more q's just ask, I'll be more available from next week...all the best


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:26 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 4:26 pm
Posts: 49
Age: 18
Drug: None
Usage: 3 weeks
Started: 28 Sep 2013
Stopped: 12 Mar 2014
Location: Michigan
Hey man, how are things going?


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 4:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:47 am
Posts: 53
Age: 34
Drug: Proscar
Usage: 12 years
Started: 01 Mar 2000
Stopped: 15 Dec 2011
Location: South Africa
Hey guys, quick update...

I did a hormonal profile and liver / kidney function tests a couple weeks ago. I had taken only 2x 1.25mg let tablets in the 10 days prior to testing and nothing at all for about the previous month or more. My results were as follows:

Total T: 33nmol (above 12 normal)

E2: 76pmol (range 40-161)

Free T: 951 (H)

SHBG: 22

These were really unexpected results. I hadn't been taking supps and barely any let at all, and my T is off the charts. Previously, the moment I stopped taking Let my E would spike and T would plummet to 10-12nmol, immediately. I'm hoping this means that something is "coming right" in my body, but don't want to get too excited yet. Will take nothing but supps for a few more months and retest. But it's a very positive sign. At the very least my Let dosage can be vastly reduced.

At the moment, I'm still feeling cool, still getting morning erections etc, so suspect things are still solid in terms of numbers. Will check back in again in a few months...hold thumbs, all the best


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 10:46 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:10 am
Posts: 152
Age: 44
Drug: Propecia
Usage: 10 months
Started: 0- 5-2011
Stopped: 0- 6-2012
Location: US, Ohio
Thanks for the update. Glad to see your numbers holding steady. Even better that you're feeling good.


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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 2:18 am 
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Posts: 243
Age: 35
Drug: Propecia
Usage: 3 months
Started: 06 Mar 2013
Stopped: 10 Jun 2013
Location: DC
So if i understand well legendary has finished his 6 months and been 2 months off and he still feels good?

Anyone copying his regimen? I am ordering the stuff...come on guys what are you waiting for, there is this and progesterone, what else to look forward to?

Who is doing this other than legendary?

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FILL YOUR SIGNATURE I took the drug for 2 years. Off on june 2013. Symptoms: numbness, ed, very low libido, fatigue, brain fog, cold feet,... Things i tried: clomid + letro (does something good and bad), baking soda for fog, SUN (Try it!!).


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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 2:20 am 
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Letrozole is extremely potent. I only took a tiny fraction of a dose a my T went over range. You can look up the studies there is plenty of info about this.


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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 7:45 am 
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Age: 34
Drug: Proscar
Usage: 12 years
Started: 01 Mar 2000
Stopped: 15 Dec 2011
Location: South Africa
This is just an opinion, after extensive testing and analysis with my Endo over the past couple years:

If you have normal secondary hypogonadism i.e. low testosterone and low / normal E2, it's unlikely Letrozole will result in a 500% increase in Total Testosterone as it has in my case (my pre-protocol level was 7, highest post-Let level was >35.) It lowers E by reducing aromatase activity, so if your E is already low / normal, where is there to go?

However, if you have low T and high E like I did, then it's possible that you have an overactive aromatase enzyme and do not need your pituitary to be stimulated via HCG or Clomid, as is usually the case with secondary hypo. In this case you may achieve similar results with Let. The studies I've seen that show dramatic increases in T using Let were with obese men who had overactive aromatase enzymes, not with men whose E levels were already low. Normal secondary hypo guys do seem to get some results, but not as dramatic. My condition seems to be more analogous with the obese guys, if for a very different reason (obesity vs long-term finasteride use.)

I've been tracking my response to various Let doses for a long time now, and usually 1.25 every day for a couple months still didn't get my E low enough or my T high enough. I've taken x2 1.25 tablets in roughly a 6-8 week period and the levels are solid. That's progress to me. Let's see what happens...good luck guys


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:04 pm 
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Age: 35
Drug: Propecia
Usage: 3 months
Started: 06 Mar 2013
Stopped: 10 Jun 2013
Location: DC
I see no updates on this.

I tried clomid for 2 weeks, and noticed a decline in brain fog, no improvements in sexual sides. Then i added letro that i bought online (doc put me only on clomid) and my libido plummeted to none. I was using clomid 50 mg eod and letro the same dose as legendary. Libido became non-existant but brain fog completely disappeared. The i dropped both, cause i was afraid i will become completely impotent.

Surprise! After i dropped both things improved sexually, i would say 20-30%. Far from full recovery but brain fog did not return, and sex life became more manageable. I think now that there is merit to the combination of both. My experience was very short, but the improvement has lasted now beyond 3 weeks and very stable. This stability is something i cherish so i am now going to stick to it and see if i improve further with time. If i feel i need more improvement i will try to go on the same for longer, or higher dosage of clomid.

I find it sad not a lot of people are trying some of these promising potential treatment.

_________________
FILL YOUR SIGNATURE I took the drug for 2 years. Off on june 2013. Symptoms: numbness, ed, very low libido, fatigue, brain fog, cold feet,... Things i tried: clomid + letro (does something good and bad), baking soda for fog, SUN (Try it!!).


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:43 pm 
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Age: 28
Drug: Proscar
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Started: 01 Mar 2010
Stopped: 25 May 2012
Location: Ireland
Mew wrote:
Thanks for the update, glad things continue to go well.

Can you post the doctor's info (name, contact info etc) you are seeing so others may consider seeing him, as it sounds he's open to trying treatments for PFS.

Keep us posted. Cheers



Has anyone else here been in contact with legendary's Doctor ?

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Please give what you can to the Post Finasteride Syndrome Foundation.
http://www.pfsfoundation.org/


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:51 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:14 pm
Posts: 24
Age: 35
Drug: Proscar
Usage: 3 months
Started: 01 Apr 2009
Stopped: 29 Jun 2009
Location: ireland
New to this, my endo here in ireland currently has me on clinical trial with letrozole only, and yeilding good results. I am in my 4 month of the trial. Started on 1.25mg ed and then increased to 2.5mg ed. Then i was dropped back to 1.5mg ed , as test levels where 4 x times over ref range. Been on 1.25mg for the past 2 months. Before letro, I was on T3 (thyroid) replacement only at 80mcg a day for 2 years - put on it by previous endo, to combat autoimmune condition that had been triggered by proscar. Btw, convinced alot of users with pfs have this issue - get T and B cells (totals and subsets) tested.Then adjusted to t4 by new endo who has me on the letro. Have had extensive testing done here in ireland. One of the many issues that the letro has helped with is energy / strength and mental clarity / mood. Still residual issues like genital tightening when I need to go to the toilet, and ball hang, however am optimistic that this will right itself once the autoimmune condition abates due to the letro. Any hoo - will post full details of my journey not only for the community but for anybody living in ireland suffering.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:09 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:51 pm
Posts: 1731
Age: 34
Drug: Dutasteride
Usage: 8 days
Started: 06 Jun 2014
Stopped: 14 Jun 2014
Location: South Florida
I have been interested in Clomid recently, body builders incorporate it into their PCT, I have been considering trying that myself.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:41 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 10:51 pm
Posts: 292
Location: Scotland
dmal wrote:
New to this, my endo here in ireland currently has me on clinical trial with letrozole only, and yeilding good results. I am in my 4 month of the trial. Started on 1.25mg ed and then increased to 2.5mg ed. Then i was dropped back to 1.5mg ed , as test levels where 4 x times over ref range. Been on 1.25mg for the past 2 months. Before letro, I was on T3 (thyroid) replacement only at 80mcg a day for 2 years - put on it by previous endo, to combat autoimmune condition that had been triggered by proscar. Btw, convinced alot of users with pfs have this issue - get T and B cells (totals and subsets) tested.Then adjusted to t4 by new endo who has me on the letro. Have had extensive testing done here in ireland. One of the many issues that the letro has helped with is energy / strength and mental clarity / mood. Still residual issues like genital tightening when I need to go to the toilet, and ball hang, however am optimistic that this will right itself once the autoimmune condition abates due to the letro. Any hoo - will post full details of my journey not only for the community but for anybody living in ireland suffering.



Hi there dmal

Can I ask how your autoimmune condition manifested itself and how that was tested?

Also, I'm curious to know what genital tightening is. I googled it and only came up with the female counterparts and I'm not looking for a vaginoplasty!

Cheers.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:51 pm
Posts: 1731
Age: 34
Drug: Dutasteride
Usage: 8 days
Started: 06 Jun 2014
Stopped: 14 Jun 2014
Location: South Florida
Scotsman wrote:
dmal wrote:
New to this, my endo here in ireland currently has me on clinical trial with letrozole only, and yeilding good results. I am in my 4 month of the trial. Started on 1.25mg ed and then increased to 2.5mg ed. Then i was dropped back to 1.5mg ed , as test levels where 4 x times over ref range. Been on 1.25mg for the past 2 months. Before letro, I was on T3 (thyroid) replacement only at 80mcg a day for 2 years - put on it by previous endo, to combat autoimmune condition that had been triggered by proscar. Btw, convinced alot of users with pfs have this issue - get T and B cells (totals and subsets) tested.Then adjusted to t4 by new endo who has me on the letro. Have had extensive testing done here in ireland. One of the many issues that the letro has helped with is energy / strength and mental clarity / mood. Still residual issues like genital tightening when I need to go to the toilet, and ball hang, however am optimistic that this will right itself once the autoimmune condition abates due to the letro. Any hoo - will post full details of my journey not only for the community but for anybody living in ireland suffering.



Hi there dmal

Can I ask how your autoimmune condition manifested itself and how that was tested?

Also, I'm curious to know what genital tightening is. I googled it and only came up with the female counterparts and I'm not looking for a vaginoplasty!

Cheers.


LOL, there is a procedure to tighten scrotum skin, some guys have saggy skin.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:14 pm
Posts: 24
Age: 35
Drug: Proscar
Usage: 3 months
Started: 01 Apr 2009
Stopped: 29 Jun 2009
Location: ireland
JUSTQUITDUT - Not quit sure about clomid, my endo reckons thats a sledge hammer to a situation which has already taken a hammering, and to be perfectly honest, because I suffered from serious depression when I crashed after proscar, I wasn't willing to mess with receptors in the brain directly. By taking letro, the body has more control over the situation.


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