PROPECIAHELP: Persistent Finasteride Propecia Proscar side effects info & discussion forum

This is from my thread at HLT. I'm not using Propecia anymore. I'm on TRT and have been using Arimidex. I've planned treatment with Proviron if it turns out that it wasn't enough. Proviron treatment would have been my choice if I could start all over again. If you want to try this, make sure to map some hormone levels first; LH, FSH, testosterone, estrogen, prolactin and SHBG.

I discovered during my early experiments, that mesterolone caused drastic, positive changes within one week with 25 mg a day. I quit in fear of hair loss, although I didn't notice any, and began experimenting with AI's to control side effects from finasteride. Monty had the same experience after two weeks treatment with large amounts of zinc every day, and one Proviron pill. JOE-91 did one week of treatment, and had a positive experience too. Monty crashed within a week - probably because he continued zinc treatment. Joe quit treatment after 7 days as intended, and had a set back as expected. Based on our experience, I recommend experimenting with Proviron. Use 25 mg a day, and stop treatment when you feel normal. Don't take another pill before you're certain that you're going downhill again. Continue treatment this way and see what happens. Eventually, the hormone ratios should correct themselves, and the interval between each Proviron pill should extend itself until you don't need anymore pills. It's important that you don't overdose. If you do so, you risk suppressing your estrogen level too much, and worse; suppressing your testosterone production.* Your testosterone production is probably already suppressed by estrogen. Mesterolone is like DHT. It's very androgenic, and thereby works as a replacement during DHT deficiency, and as an estrogen antagonist. When your estrogen level is reduced, your body is able to produce more testosterone. Mesterolone also frees up endogenous androgens by binding to SHBG (it has stronger affinity for this hormone) - which clearly contributes to its positive effects.

*I realized after a discussion with Dr. Crisler (he doesn't support my work, nor use of Proviron), that your HPTA probably will reduce secretion of GnRH when you use Proviron - no matter what, but your testosterone level should increase from baseline, after treatment - if it's suppressed by estrogen.

About DHT deficiency
Your prostate fluid should be white. You're DHT deficient, and have an excessive amount of estrogen if it's transparent.

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- Prostate biopsy?
- Working TRT protocol found! (not my current treatment)

This is interesting but I'm not fully following and have a few questions:

1. What is the theory behind this? What is happening behind the scenes (per your theory) that would make this work over the long term? I'd love to understand it a bit better.

2. Do you know of anyone who has tried this successfully?

3. Do you happen to know why Crisler objects to this, or at least doesn't support it?

4. Why didn't you do this, and if you are on TRT, why not just start it now and go off TRT? I'm assuming that when you say you're on TRT, you mean you're on it for the long haul. Also, is TRT working for you?

Thanks!

Read more about it in Dr. Crisler's thread at HLT. I believe our condition is caused by unfavorable hormone ratios. My hypothesis is at the bottom of that page.

It works. It causes drastic positive changes within a week. I discovered this in february 2010. It was a part of my experiments to reverse and manage side effects from finasteride. Only monty has tried to maintain the results, but he crashed. The approach which I've suggested has never been attempted. Dr. Crisler doesn't believe that it's DHT deficiency and excessive estrogen which is the source for all our problems, but I assure you this is how it begins, at least with the physical side effects. I've been studying the side effects for more than a year. He doesn't believe that an optimal testosterone/estrogen ratio is critical either. That's why. I believe that DHT is what maintains the testosterone/estrogen ratio, because it's the estrogen antagonist.

I attempted to manage side effects from Propecia. That's why I didn't use Proviron. I'm on TRT for life. It's a long story, and it's not up for discussion. I've recently gone through treatment with Arimidex to shift some ratios. Andractim has been used to control symptoms of gynecomastia during that period. It seems like I've managed to shift the ratios properly, but my estrogen level is currently a bit low in relation to the androgen levels. I've planned treatment with Proviron if I get in trouble with excessive estrogen again.

About the T/E ratio
Morning erections are dependent on an optimal testosterone/estrogen ratio.

_________________
- Prostate biopsy?
- Working TRT protocol found! (not my current treatment)

Thanks Enden. I'm still learning and trying to digest all of the theories out there, so I'll certainly check out the link you provided and do some more reading on this. I do think that there is a subset of men who seem to be responsive to TRT, and other hormone-based therapies, and these also seem to be the men who have only sexual sides. I only have sexual sides also, but I've also not recovered in almost 10 years now, so I don't know if I'll fall into that category (I took 9 years just to try to figure out what the heck was happening, as I actually thought I'd had a loss of libido/function for reasons of stress, etc.). My drs appt to start baseline hormone testing/treating is Mar. 2 so I'm trying to learn as much as possible before then. I appreciate your guideance and perspective- thanks.

Dr. Crisler was wrong.

25 - 50 mg Proviron a day, doesn't suppress your testosterone production. More recent studies have shown that the suppression begins at 75 mg a day. However, this is an abstract from a study where they used 100 - 150 mg Proviron a day (for 12 months!), and it shows otherwise! As you can see, it suppressed LH by 25% in cases where the level was above the normal range. I recommend 25 mg a day, and I wouldn't use more than 50 mg a day, just to be safe.


The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.

_________________
- Prostate biopsy?
- Working TRT protocol found! (not my current treatment)

Ender how are you feeling

1- muscle loss / gain?
2- total feelings of well being.
3-mental clearity?
4- sexual gian?

proviron is quite suppresive to your HPTA&also thyroid hormones(T3&T4-because of its anabolic effects). your lh , fsh , Total T will drop. i strongly recommend you to order full panel blood tests before your treatment.
try it it will boost DHT but 1-2 week after you'll come down to baseline again...low estrogen makes you feel bad...if you are thinking a proviron only cycle .

if you really want to try something, try thyroid & adrenal fatigue & autoimmunity treatments those are for us.

check for antibodies.

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25mcg T4 + Sun + exercise

Studies have shown that up to 75 mg Proviron a day doesn't affect the HPTA!

I'm currently doing pretty good, although I have a different protocol that I'm working on. I'll talk more about it later.

_________________
- Prostate biopsy?
- Working TRT protocol found! (not my current treatment)

Post these studies please.

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you can cycle it with virigen testocaps, much more useful

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5964&p=48641#p48641

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25mcg T4 + Sun + exercise

I'll see if I get my hands on a copy, without paying for it. That's what I read when I was searching for studies. Anyway, the abstract I posted shows that 100 - 150 mg a day (!) only suppresses LH in cases where it's above the normal range...

_________________
- Prostate biopsy?
- Working TRT protocol found! (not my current treatment)

From Bayer's information leaflet (page 2)

Source.

_________________
- Prostate biopsy?
- Working TRT protocol found! (not my current treatment)

a guy on mesomorphosis forum told me that even 25 mg has suppressive properties but not much.

i guaratee you your lh will drop a little, you have to cycle it with T.

steroids also suppressive on t3 t4

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25mcg T4 + Sun + exercise

You guarantee that LH will drop while using 25 mg a day, yet studies shows that it doesn't...

_________________
- Prostate biopsy?
- Working TRT protocol found! (not my current treatment)

fuck studies, try it on yourself. you 'll see the LH change. order bloodtests before/after 1 week 25/day usage.

i suggest you dont take only proviron, if you think mesterolon will work(i am sure its working on us) go ahead and shot yourself injectable DHT with T.
or just try one week of proviron+oral T(andriol-virigen.etc..)

if you currently runnig TRT, proviron makes sense, it will lower LH a bit but you are using arimidex. no problem go head try.

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25mcg T4 + Sun + exercise

If you are on TRT then why are you thinking about lowering of LH or FSH, they are down any way.

I don't give a shit about LH and FSH, but this is important stuff for other people who would like to try Proviron.

sanane, no, people shouldn't stack anything with Proviron. It would give them too many variables, and suppress the testosterone production. Btw, Proviron is tablets, and it's NOT hepatotoxic - like most other oral steroids. You haven't said anything about toxicity, but I'm just mentioning it.

_________________
- Prostate biopsy?
- Working TRT protocol found! (not my current treatment)

I have tried Proviron. After an initial improvement, it steadily made me feel worse (like any androgen supplementation did so far, including Andractim). I just recently chucked >20 boxes of the stuff...

Funny you say that. I recently got my testosterone checked and it was at 99, lower than a lot of females. I have now been on 80mg of Test Cyp weekly (about the 5th time I've started TRT) and my testosterone is around 700, but I feel no different. If anything, I feel like my mentally I might be worse off.

did your beard or body hair growth speed changed after TRT? i ask for growth speed because it could be an indicator that our enzymes work. (i felt a very little change in my mood after Viricaps btw)

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25mcg T4 + Sun + exercise