PROPECIAHELP: Persistent Finasteride Propecia Proscar side effects info & discussion forum

Forum for men with PERSISTENT sexual, mental & physical side effects which CONTINUE DESPITE QUITTING Finasteride (Propecia, Proscar), a 5AR inhibitor drug for hair loss, prostate enlargement & prostate cancer.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:41 pm 
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Age: 32
Drug: Proscar
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molybedenu wrote:
Also, did you notice gradual improvement during the week or was it an all of a sudden total cure type of thing? Gradual improvement I hope...



The main idea of this is that the drug has intoxicated our livers which plays an important part in PH level homeostasis and the conversion of T4 into T3 (among other things but these two are relevant to us). This protocol helps detox the liver enzyme that converts T4 into T3 as well as helping us return our body to a more alkaline state. If your body is even slightly acidic or T3 levels are off you will experience brain fog as a symptom. For some that are extremely toxic a complete liver detox and/or a coffee enema (as used in Gerson Cancer Therapy) may help but I didn't include that in the protocol because that's not what I did. I also suspect some would benefit from taking a couple of drops of Lugols Iodine for the week, but for the sake of honesty and consistency I can't include that because I wasn't doing it.

The improvement increased gradually at a very high rate. I was also on a raw food diet long before I tried this but didn't get results until I removed bottled water, drank tap water and added all the other things mentioned.

As for the different types of nuts and seeds you're eating - look up each one of them and see if they are acidic or alkaline (e.g. peanuts are acidic where almonds are alkaline) and remove any that are acidic.

Also, as stated before this only cured my brain fog - I wouldn't expect much improvement in other areas.

Make sure you are drinking tap water so you can be positive it's alkaline. Bottled water almost always does not have correct PH levels regardless of what it indicates on the label...I know because I tested with a PH tester.

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Don't wait for a cure! If everyone suffering from PFS constantly tests new supplements and protocols then eventually we'll find something that can stabilize or cure us completely -be a part of the solution in progress.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:45 am 
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I've been doing a bit more research on the liver enzyme not functioning properly, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodothyronine_deiodinase the liver enzyme responsible for producing T3 from T4 ALSO produces reverse T3 from T4, so liver damage/malfunctioning DI enzyme would be indicated by low T3 AND low reverse T3.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:18 am 
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thank you for sharing this brongfogboy. I tried just the guggul lipid for libido reasons and that stuff is great. it doesn't really boost the libido like crazy but it helps... it gives me good erections and alot of energy too.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:50 pm 
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molybedenu wrote:
I've been doing a bit more research on the liver enzyme not functioning properly, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodothyronine_deiodinase the liver enzyme responsible for producing T3 from T4 ALSO produces reverse T3 from T4, so liver damage/malfunctioning DI enzyme would be indicated by low T3 AND low reverse T3.


1 enzyme produces both t3 and rt3? How does it Differentiate? Wouldn't this mean that they would have to have exact correlation increases and decreases?

Can you explain a bit more?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:05 pm 
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BFB, I am in the process of starting your protocol. I started with the sodium bicarbonate which is making me pee much more frequently and also larger volumes. I am also now more dehydrated and more thirsty. Is this something you experienced?

I have to say however, my brain fog improved quiet rapidly after taking it - not back to normal after a couple days but I am hopeful. What made you think of Sodium Bicarbonate?

Thanks.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:05 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:28 am
Posts: 619
Location: Toronto
Age: 40
Drug: Propecia
Usage: 2 yrs
Started: 0- 1-2009
Stopped: 0- 9-2010
Location: Toronto
I'm wondering how guggul lipid works in our bodies. I noticed a number of cautions issued to those taking this stuff:

Quote:
Large amounts of guggul might theoretically increase the side effects of estrogen.

Some estrogen pills include conjugated equine estrogens (Premarin), ethinyl estradiol, estradiol, and others.

Quote:
Guggul might increase how quickly the liver breaks down some medications. Taking guggul along with some medications that are broken down by the liver can decrease the effectiveness of some medications. Before taking guggul talk to your healthcare provider if you are taking any medications that are changed by the liver.

Quote:
Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) interacts with GUGGUL

Some types of cancer are affected by hormones in the body. Estrogen-sensitive cancers are cancers that are affected by estrogen levels in the body. Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) is used to help treat and prevent these types of cancer. Guggul could theoretically affect estrogen levels in the body. By affecting estrogen in the body, guggul might decrease the effectiveness of tamoxifen (Nolvadex). Do not take guggul if you are taking tamoxifen (Nolvadex).
Thyroid hormone interacts with GUGGUL

Guggul might increase thyroid hormone in the body. Taking guggul along with thyroid hormone pills might increase the effects and side effects of thyroid hormones.


Link


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:58 am 
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Age: 32
Drug: Proscar
Usage: 11 Years
Started: 01 Jan 2000
Stopped: 01 Sep 2011
Location: USA
aspirin wrote:
BFB, I am in the process of starting your protocol. I started with the sodium bicarbonate which is making me pee much more frequently and also larger volumes. I am also now more dehydrated and more thirsty. Is this something you experienced?

I have to say however, my brain fog improved quiet rapidly after taking it - not back to normal after a couple days but I am hopeful. What made you think of Sodium Bicarbonate?

Thanks.


When you're detoxing it's not uncommon for your body to urinate more in order to get the toxins out, just continue to drink plenty of tap water. Sodium bicarbonate is very efficient at making your bodies PH alkaline which will help with a number of things during the protocol.

Just don't skip any part of the protocol and keep us updated!

_________________
Don't wait for a cure! If everyone suffering from PFS constantly tests new supplements and protocols then eventually we'll find something that can stabilize or cure us completely -be a part of the solution in progress.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:08 am 
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Age: 88
Drug: Propecia
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BrongFogBoy wrote:
kngreen60 wrote:
You might be right. I had a couple other adults take their temp and it was 97.something.

Im a little lower than that, 96 in the mornings and low 97's in the afternoon and have seen many others post on here about low temps. I was always 98.6 when young, but I was unaware age may play a role.

please keep up updated on your improvement with your protocol!



Interesting! I think that anyone believing their low temperature was brought on by finasteride in one way or another should start asking people to take their temperature. They'll be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't have a low temp, other than very young people.

I have also contacted and spoke with nurses who take temperature multiple times on a daily basis, they said it is very rare to find anyone 30 and up who has a temperature of 98.6

Update to follow

I think the lowered body temperature has to do with less bioactivation occuring in the body. There's less chemical reactions from the lack of AR activation, resulting in lower heat/energy output in the body.

_________________
"Finasteride was well-tolerated." Merck

"DHT does not appear to have any essential physiological role in the adult male." Merck to the FDA, November 1997


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:14 pm 
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Age: 33
Drug: Propecia
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I think the lower temperature comes from impaired alpha-gluconidation of the P740 pathway induced by reduced gamma-demethylase activity at the mitochondrial DNA level. There's less metabolism of secondary acetylated watermelonites from the lack of AR activation, resulting in lower heat/energy output in the body.
That's what I think, Im no scientist but I have "reading comprehension skills" of scientific mumbo-jumbo that is way over my head.

I thought spewing out theories without rigorous reference to existing scientific litterature was frowned upon on this forum, can't wait for Oscar or Mew to come and scold you here (unless there is a double standard on this forum?)

Damn, isnt trolling fun!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:57 pm 
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Go spend another ten grand on a Greek dude shoving his finger up your ass.

Have fun eating those FQ antibiotics too!

_________________
"Finasteride was well-tolerated." Merck

"DHT does not appear to have any essential physiological role in the adult male." Merck to the FDA, November 1997


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:21 pm
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Age: 20
Drug: Propecia
Usage: 1.2 years
Started: 0- 7-2010
Stopped: 0- 8-2011
Location: brazil
Second A... You must have gone to some kind of school, where they teach people how to be professional fucktard, because buddy you're one hell of a one.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:20 pm 
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Obrigado

_________________
"Finasteride was well-tolerated." Merck

"DHT does not appear to have any essential physiological role in the adult male." Merck to the FDA, November 1997


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:43 am 
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Age: 32
Drug: Proscar
Usage: 11 Years
Started: 01 Jan 2000
Stopped: 01 Sep 2011
Location: USA
Second Amendment wrote:
BrongFogBoy wrote:
kngreen60 wrote:
You might be right. I had a couple other adults take their temp and it was 97.something.

Im a little lower than that, 96 in the mornings and low 97's in the afternoon and have seen many others post on here about low temps. I was always 98.6 when young, but I was unaware age may play a role.

please keep up updated on your improvement with your protocol!



Interesting! I think that anyone believing their low temperature was brought on by finasteride in one way or another should start asking people to take their temperature. They'll be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't have a low temp, other than very young people.

I have also contacted and spoke with nurses who take temperature multiple times on a daily basis, they said it is very rare to find anyone 30 and up who has a temperature of 98.6

Update to follow

I think the lowered body temperature has to do with less bioactivation occuring in the body. There's less chemical reactions from the lack of AR activation, resulting in lower heat/energy output in the body.



But what about the endless people who have never touched finasteride in their life whom have a low body temperature? Ask anyone over the age of 35 to take their temperature in front of you (otherwise they'll just say it's normal without checking) and see what you find.

_________________
Don't wait for a cure! If everyone suffering from PFS constantly tests new supplements and protocols then eventually we'll find something that can stabilize or cure us completely -be a part of the solution in progress.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:59 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:56 pm
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Age: 33
Drug: Propecia
Usage: - than 3 wks
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Second Amendment wrote:
Go spend another ten grand on a Greek dude shoving his finger up your ass.

Have fun eating those FQ antibiotics too!

There you go. You now officially, publicly confirmed yourself as the biggest douchebag to ever register on PH. Have fun with your suicide blog.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:37 pm 
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Age: 31
Drug: Propecia
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Started: 01 Apr 2005
Stopped: 10 Jul 2011
Location: Norge
Can anyone confirm that this protocol actually worked for them, other than the discussion initiator?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:33 pm 
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I tried part of it. Specifically the sodium bicarbonate, gugulipid and vinegar after BFBs post. Didn't take them exactly according to the protocol. I felt that the sodium bicarbonate helped the most. Was having a particularly bad episode of brain fog and felt that it really helped, almost instantly. Sodium bicarbonate ie.baking soda is harmless in small doses and is found in every day foods.

I think that the adrenals are involved with PFS to some extent. Adrenals has multiple functions including electrolyte balance, water balance and body pH via it's affect on the kidneys ( via aldosterone). We already know PFS causes imbalances such as vitamin D deficiency.

Why might this cause brain fog? Well, when electrolytes and pH are 'off' enzymes stop working and the water quantity in cells such as neurons change. Another thing that causes enzyme dysfunction is body temperature which has been a topic of discussion recently.

Let us know of your response if u try it.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:46 pm 
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I should probably elaborate a little on baking soda.

Carbonate is a a key ion in the bodies pH balance. A deficiency of this ion changes the balance of hydrogen ions and thus changes the bodies pH. For example when a patient is too acidotic in hospital (which can happen for a number of different reasons), the treatment includes administering intravenous bicarbonate. This is common and happens in every intensive care unit on a daily basis. Carbonate balance (as all ions) is controlled by the kidneys.

My theory is that PFS affects the adrenals to some extent. The adrenals produce numerous steroids. A key steroid is aldosterone which acts on the kidneys to maintain water balance, ion balance and pH.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:51 pm 
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aspirin,

did sodium bicarbonate also help you feel better regarding sexual side effects?

Can you elaborate a bit more on enzyme dysfunction and body temperature?

Thanks


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:39 pm 
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Unfortunately no help with the sexual sides. I think the brain fog and sexual sides have the same origin but the pathways after the origin differ.

Enzymes are a subclass of proteins. There are many other subclasses of proteins such as receptors on cells. Enzymes facilitate chemical reactions in the body. Eg converting one molecule into another. Proteins (and thus enzymes) require certain conditions for them to work optimally. These conditions include body temperature and pH within a certain range. When these conditions are not optimal proteins (and thus enzymes) can not work as well and even breakdown (the technical term for this is 'denature').

All I can say is that through experience sodium bicarbonate and PLENTY OF FLUID HYDRATION has helped my brain fog. Thats what made me think of fluid balance, ion balance and pH balance (in which the carbonate ion is important). I always thought that the adrenals had some role in PFS and the adrenals produce aldosteone which is involved with ion and water balance through its action on the kidneys.

Things that might be worthwhile for brain fog suffers:
- check bicarbonate ion levels in their blood - especially during episodes of brain fog
- bit more complicated: have an MRI of the brain during an episode of brain fog. An MRI is harmless unless you have a metallic object stuck in your body or if u have a pacemaker. An MRI is sensitive at detecting brain edema (too much fluid) in brain tissues - which again ties in with the fluid balance concept.

These are just ideas.. But for brain fog sufferers the main thing is symptom relief as life is very hard with it.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:04 pm 
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Started: 01 Apr 2005
Stopped: 10 Jul 2011
Location: Norge
Aspirin,

I tried it for a week, and no results whatsoever. I was also very careful with what I ate, no carbs, although I did allow myself some fish in the evening.

I am now finishing a fasting period of 11 days, of which seven days were a juice fast and four a complete water fast. Tough stuff, but you get through it. I will start eating again slowly tomorrow, and will of course post if I notice any improvement to my brain fog.


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