PROPECIAHELP: Persistent Finasteride Propecia Proscar side effects info & discussion forum

No.

It doesn't harm me, but has been the source of no breakthroughs or help. I won't say it's a BS product, but it's weak. Definitely better than substituting bodily hormones, but it hasn't done shit. I should have felt better after one week/cycle, as one of the site owners of Primordial Performance said to me.

Sustain Alpha may help someone else, but not in my case. Though it's a pleasant concoction and fades into your skin by dermal absorption and evaporation, is nice to smell and rub on. The best thing is the fact that I had something oily to rub my pretty little body with ('tis a joke, hee hee).

I have used Trib too and felt next to nothing.

Thanks for your kind words.

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3pm's Story

Congrats on improvements thus far.

You are currently taking:
- Sustain Alpha
- Tribulus
- Phenibut

Which of these do you believe is the source of improvements, and why?

My guess would be phenibut, since you are finding improvement in cognitive symptoms overall, and phenibut has been listed as causing "euphoric" feelings etc.

Just trying to pinpoint which supplements are providing the most benefit.

I see you just replied to Gimzin's post and mine came right after, so probably pointless to repeat.

I would say probably the Phenibut as well because of my experiences with increasing the effect of GABA. I have been taking a product called Travacor from neuroscience labs and I have found that my mental faculties have improved tremendously over the past month. My ability to think under pressure and "on the fly" has come back to almost how I remember it. The product effects the GABA receptors making them more apt to work. I believe by adding in Phenibut to the mix I will experience even more gains in this area. I just ordered it a couple of minutes ago.......

Not pointless, here's why.


Thank you friend.

lol

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3pm's Story

I never thought I would deserve to post here, and I knew while I was ill that posting here would be an absolute lie. We all know our true personalities & bodies, and how these symptoms not merely warp, but suppress them.



Sexual function: this only seems to have restored itself today. To get this back I had to have sexual stimulation and feel mental pleasure, euphoria and pleasure to give my system a jump. To activate something that is now improving the testicles and penis.

My penis was shriveled up and the skin wrinkled back. It is now less like this, and easier to let it fill in with blood and allow the corpus cavernosa to fill up and grow (while flaccid).

When I think about, and attempt, sexual gratification, I notice my testes want to get closer to my meat stick and are trying to do something. They went from yesterday being somewhat sore to the touch and hardened, to thicker, closer to my penis and body, and perhaps are producing more androgen.


Mental clarity: Brain fog is a MISERABLE thing, but I have made serious strides and gotten to feel not only happy but very pleasurable, grateful for life, and all the other downfalls of this state have been filled. The impairment of saying what I want to fluently symptom, very subdued and nearly vanished. I feel easier talking to people and will not avoid conversations and interactions because of this issue. I have things to say now, and can successfully say them. Mentally I feel happy and satisfied to ge going somewhere, as opposed to the former state of feeling useless, silent and helpless. Acuity, sharpness, it's certainly getting there.

Physical symptoms: I had severe muscle problems during the post-fin state of deficiency. Certainly loss of the muscular strength; they felt very soft and atrophied. I am a lean person, however this ordeal provided fat to layer atop the muscles and make me appear unfit. I am 5' 9'' and 150 lbs, so I am within good fat percentage.

Muscles were ALWAYS agonizing me, in pain, and begging me to stop. I could not endure anything. Not even walking was easy, I would limp, because my quads were all tight. Instinctual I would hold my chest (as one would a wound) at the sternum, feeling muscular tightness there. Now, along with the "well-being" feeling, I do not favor my movements - I simply move gracefully.

I have also had visual disturbances (looking at the sky and seeing small iridescent specks - like my vision was a TV with slightly poor reception. I also would have iridescent after-images. I should not speak of this in past terminology, because I still have this. I had developed some "floaters" pre-fin use, and around when I started trying to needlessly fix hair loss like an ignoramus, I know this symptom presented. It's not impairing anything. I feel fine and perhaps this may dissipate as my other symptoms fade away.


So, I do feel that this is a method of recovery I am practicing. I see no reason at this time to cease treatment with Phenibut, as I have had no significant side effects at all (and I use that phrase VERY carefully, believe me). It has been positive.

I noticed when this first presented that I did have a "low" after the initial, unexpected "high" of mental ecstasy and joy. Symptoms started to relapse a bit, which is why I opted to - instead of as I planned on - take only two days off Phen, the minimum. Today, I feel wonderful. I sat on my roof and adored the sky (lol).

I suspect this can last, as if it is the dopaminergic influence that is fueling the relief, it is from the catecholamines of my own body, not substitution as I would be doing if I tried L-Dopa.

There is an absolute mechanistic way to understand these symptoms as attainable and - apparently - as reversible as well.

Personal situation: I feel glad this is all washing away. Blessed really, but by no one's true help but my own and the members and presence of this website and forum. I can feel happiness and peace. I can even tell people off that deserve it. I have apologized to people who are nice and got the wrong impression of me thru these symptoms masking me. I intend to rid my life of the ticks and leeches making it worse, and not truly being friends to me. The disease and cure is defined by a difference between being a personal doormat for others, and a chiseled rock of defiance to tell someone they are wrong then you know them to be, and defend yourself.

I am not sure if this will help me for good of course, so for now, I am content with this. If I died today I'd hate it because I now have a second chance at life. Before, if there were no way out and the Phen, the GHB, the HRT, and well-respected Dr.'s didn't help me, there may have been a grave for me in the future. I had never intended to "an hero", and no one here wants that (we are here to get better), but with everything absolutely ineffective, dismal and malfunctioning... why reflect a lie to other people. Why be someone you are not. It hurts, and the whole episode of post-finasteride syndrome is like your ego being lashed with a metal whip until absolute perversion and deformity of it.

But I feel okay. I have always been at peace with this, because I did nothing wrong. We all show that.

I will return to discuss how long this improvement lasts, and other potential solutions to accomplish the same effect. But this is like being reborn. I'm not completely cured, but I am convinced this is a viable method of reversing the ailment, and that I am now in a process of recovery.

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3pm's Story

This is great news 3pm: many congratulations.

So erections are easier now? How is libido?

Muscles are not painful? Muscle strength is coming back?

Are there any other signs of improved androgen levels, or improved response to androgens?

Facial hair growth? Skin oil? Pitch of voice? Body hair?

Thanks for keeping us updated; really hope things keep going well for you.

Looking forward to seeing you in the Recovery section.

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3pm's Story

So you took Phenibut for 4 days and feel almost recovered in all areas?

Erectile dysfunction is no more, libido is raging and you are horny as a dog? Can't stop fantasizing about sex again?

How can you be sure it's not the Tribulus or Sustain Alpha you've been using?

Seems to be quite an amazing response in such a short time period!

It's great news, and although I've said it already I think it's awesome that you're getting out of this.

One thing I will add, though, is that if you feel good and go off and have a great time (which, really, you deserve to do), remember to pop back here to let us know how things are going. It's stories like this which keep some of us on here going through the hell of the worst symptoms.

Gim

Oh, I'm never leaving this site until it becomes obsolete and irrelevant (unlike ithappens kinda did...). I'm seeing this issue all the way through on a medical and legal basis, and will endeavor to consult people going through this.

Mew.... No. Just no. I'll give ya my response in a while, gotta head to pick someone up at the airport. But in short... recovery won't occur spontaneously, it will likely require weeks before all of my biological systems are optimal again, and I'm out chasing girls with my stiffy. Which is clearly what you want to do, so I recommend grabbing some of this stuff.

BTW I interpreted this

as sarcastic initially... I dunno, you're a born scientific mind and doubter, which is awesome. I just felt a tinge of unrealistic initial expectations is all. Cheers.

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3pm's Story

Fair enough, wasn't sure if you meant everything was 100% back to normal in 4 days or wether this is simply the beginnings of improvements. Thanks for making it clear.



As you've stated yourself, you don't want to put this down to psychosomatic issues or placebo. I think it's only natural to approach things with a bit of healthy skepticisim... however, I'm sincerely glad in your improvements thus far and definitely look forward to your progress. I will also do some research into this supplement in my own time.

Thanks for the updates thus far.

Here is a study on Phenibut I came across:
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi- ... 3/PDFSTART

Also, one user's experience from http://www.raysahelian.com/phenibut.html:

"Glad to see you've now added a profile for Phenibut. I wanted to give my experiences with this medicine in the hope that it might help anyone out there wondering how well it works. I suffer from generalized anxiety disorder and I must say phenibut at a high dose of 2 grams absolutely kills the anxiety. Lower doses have smaller effects. The effects make themself apparent at 1-2 hours after oral dosing and last for perhaps 4-5 hours. It does a good job at reducing anxiety, it is however a SHORT TERM solution only. Tolerance seems to develop within days with continuous dosing (which takes about 2 weeks of complete abstinence from Phenibut to disappear) and it is therefore best to use sparingly, perhaps once a week during particularly bad episodes of anxiety. This kind of frequency of use does not seem to develop tolerance. At the relatively high dose of 2g it does make me drowsy and nauseous after approximately 4-5 hours. A hangover and some rebound anxiety is expected the next day, leaving me to question the point of this drug. It's a shame because its anxiolytic effects are absolutely fantastic, but the hangover, rebound anxiety and nauseous feeling seem to leave you feeling pretty bad the day after. I've been reading up on phenibut since it appeared on the market and the above experience seems to echo what a lot of people are describing (in terms of hangover, rebound anxiety, tolerance) so they aren't side-effects isolated to me only. People are using anywhere from 250mg - 2,000mg to induce an anxiolytic effect."


3pm, does what he state above ring true for you as well?

haven't left at all i'm very much still here actually. I just choose not really to post that much anymore because I just don't have much to add at this point. I'm doing alot better as I said before, and when I have something else to add I will trust me.

Yes, it's merely our personalities differ. I'm desperate to help these people and rectify the medical and scientific casualties and neglects that caused this, and you're not sharing too much - you have simply "cured" and not offered a whole lot beyond GHB's indication and relevance in our situations. I credit paulwaters and yourself for elevating consciousness about that. But, like I said, I'm here for good. No offense intended by my statements or implications.

And, additionally, you never had ED from finasteride, just the poor sleep/brain fog and (I'm assuming here) anxiety, adrenal-related? Not sure if you posted blood tests. So that plays a role in why you're not around - you never needed to figure out how to cure sexual dysfunction/shrinkage, and don't know how yourself.

Nice to hear from you though.



I would like to quickly update on my status and offer a clear warning and make everyone aware of something (that part comes later)...

I really wanted to sleep about 9 - 10 hrs after being awake and feeling blissful, expressive, etc. When this happened it was directly after my last post - I began to feel mild craps in my back, but certainly, my brain was telling me "you should definitely rest". I couldn't though, I had to retrieve my mother from the airport.

So like I said, cramps began to occur... but they are twin cramps at the base of my back. Ironically where the adrenals should be. It is easily mistaken for mere muscle cramps, but I know I can feel something happening internally. Hyperplasia or atrophy perhaps. All I know is that I definitely find the adrenals suspect in this crime, and see how a GABA analogue (GHB, Phen, etc) can be useful in restoring that - if it were the source, or a source, of this issue. But I suspect multiple areas of aggravation and dysfunction in the body glandular system.

I'm so bloody tired...need some sleep. I won't even need the Phenibut, and this part is critical.... I am potentially experiencing hyper-vigilance. Hypervigilance isn't a medical term, it's something I initially used to describe how I felt while on finasteride - the anxiety (though I don't feel too anxious now)... makes a lot of sense if this IS adrenal fatigue/Addisson's, but without doc's being competent when you see 'em, how the hell should I know

I'm rapid now, but mainly - I believe - only because when I wanted to sleep I had to pull into high gear again. The good news is that I CAN pull into high gear, and the bad news is that I over-did it, and I seem to be (speculatively) swimming in catecholamines ATM.

And it is some bad news (I ofc don't mind, but still)... when I am this stressed, I'm not feeling good. I'm not feeling sexually capable - at least as much as I should be. It's rather a "wired" feeling, like the typical coke addict (minus the idiocy required to abuse cocaine). I would not use coke to defeat brain fog though, ever (looking at you boston ). I never have and never will.

But yes, my lower back is hurting and it feels like there are two balls subtly being squeezed back there. This is a relevant point of this post, and I'll keep my eye on this.

When I pull down my pants, while I'm feeling good (recent), my penis isn't hypoxic and retracted as much as it one was. It has a fleshy structure and hangs rather normally, despite the thinning which will take some time to reverse I expect. My balls did see a change this morning, however now, they feel a bit swollen as before and slightly hanging. What I need is good rest, I believe tomorrow they will be better.

Tonight, I don't intend to take much. 1 - 1.5g (I initially intended to take 2g). I don't need it for relaxation...it is not as potent a tranquilizer in the sense of a benzo or GHB. It simply makes you feel content and may improve mood while on it. However, as I view this as a continuing treatment rather than something to do just for immediate relief, I will just bring the Phen use down. It may be that I need to lower the dosage slowly to avoid excess dopaminergic withdrawls (self-note: is there any data on this, or any, GABA analogue's mechanistic cause of DA rush or DA rush via withdrawl?). But I haven't felt very badly during these times - mild, occasional shakes, but rare. So I am not stating that the "withdrawl" (and I presume this counts as withdrawl - 24 hours off the latest use) has become unbearable, dangerous, or causing me any problems. Further I insist that this concern may have been triggered by excess stress, which post-Phen treatment, I hope will not make for too much DA, but simply, enough. Yeah....it makes sense that my adrenals may be exhausted and need longer-term healing, something good sleep may boost.

MEW - I want to point something out (&, of course, I am glad to hear your kind words). The matter of psychosomaticism in my case is easily construed with using emotional catharsis and thoughts to stimlate and cause the release of neurochems and receptors that were dormant before introducing Phenibut into my body. So, what you may have been referring to as psychosomaticism (I think you mean overall - that I'm just "telling myself I'm okay and it's happening", but anyway) is exactly the "mental muscles" you need to make use of again to get the hormonal, and sexual benefits. When I think about sex and fucking I get excited and thrilled in my mind, and it is stimulating a sexual response. This response will take time to restore as it requires hormones to be back online, and my balls need rest - I assume - to rebuild. That is my working assumption.

I hope my post wasn't too long guys. I am sorry if I threw in excess words there - I'm still moderately doped out, somewhat stressed (from having to push myself), and my mind is riding the high. So I can become verbose. WPM goes up etc.

Thank you all for your patience and kindness in this endeavor. I believe restful, restorative sleep is a good treatment, and will not stop at every exit along this road to recovery to write novels about my progress. Just what's relevant from now on. Thank you for reading, and good night.

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3pm's Story

Ok ok, brain is still churning now that I got myself on the site, so I will just answer Mew's question that I first didn't see, then I can turn in.


Not entirely, but somewhat...

I have seen that people react differently to different doses of the stuff. In this person's case, his generalized anxiety is probably a chronic GABA deficiency, and the Phenibut temporarily restores his GABA giving the tranquilizing effect. I don't think I am too deficient in GABA anymore, but I am normally dopamine deficient. I think this is why I don't get all that sedated when taking this anymore - that and it's well-known quick tolerance curve.

However, I shall say that my second real dosage was 1.25g (first sleep, K.O.'d me), and that was after taking 250mg and feeling good, then taking more and not feeling much better mood-wise. Before I finally dozed off, I felt unbelievably relaxed. Much like when I took 2mg Lorazepam in the hospital (crediting my gf on that suggestion).

I sat here at the computer and it was about 5am, I drank the Phen up w/ a protein shake (that's how I take it - I pour the drug atop the drink - its viscosity keeps the crystaline powder atop and is pretty easy to swallow in a gulp). Yeah, I was thinking to myself "this stuff is all hype, like any other body-builder product; all I freaking got out of this was kinda happy for a while" and then maybe 10 minutes later I was pleasantly spaced out. Like being drunk but just w/o the ill feeling. I felt reflective and introspective - more thorough - in my thought process. I remained awake for the rest of the day until 6pm that night (I was doing something for my mother on the PC before she left for her trip) and voila. I wake up at 8pm hearing my Uncle and goddaughter in the room aside from mine, and I eventually get up from an absolute coma of 2 hours. It takes me a while but I get up...I get up feeling decent, and as I'm interacting with them, I start to realize I can actually summon the ability to describe myself and be funny. First true sign of this stuff really helping me was then.

So in short... this account you posted makes sense. The drug certainly has a defined effect on GABA receptors (like ethanol, GHB, etc), and the anxiolytic effect is dependent upon the consumer's state of brain GABA. If it's high, it can just echo that state (or alternatively, in higher doses, cause fainting and respiratory depression) - if it is low, then their anxieties which have been gnawing at them will vaporize.

This account rings true, but in our cases, we may simply need to remind our brains what GABA functionality/production means again. This means re-educating the brain to induce proper deep sleep and the anxiolytic benefits of Phenibut are apparent here. However, as we continue to get those good feelings and functions back on our own (ie I don't believe I require Phen for good sleep at this point, but still need some more therapy), this anxiolytic effect will be less significant for us.

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3pm's Story

none taken. I basically attribute most of my recovery to GHB and taking it easy, ie not going out drinking etc. I tried some other things that I thought were beneficial but in the end didnt really offer much so I really don't have much else to share at this point. Believe me I'm all for helping anyone I can on here, and I've always answered most of my pms. However, I honestly just feel like I'm baning my head against a wall in trying to figure out something that no medical experts, none the less myself, understands. I've simply stated on various posts that GHB and other GABA alongs work by forcing a deeper sleep, thus probably creating more 5-AR/DHT etc. I know from my own experience that my nuts felt more sexually connected when I took GHB. And btw I did suffer sexual side effects as well, lack of erections morning wood etc, but they were not as severe as others on here. Overall, I would consider myself almost there, no more anxiety, brain fog has subsided for the most part, a lot more content and cognitive etc. I recovered for a brief period of a couple weeks a few months back and Im trying to get back to that 100% different world mark.

I'll offer this advice though. I found that I did experience a mild hang over from taking G the night before and found that it worked much better when I would take it every other night. My sleep the night after taking it was greatly improved, and it allowed me not to over do it so you may want to try that with phen. Granted I was on it for a straight month and half though before I started that pattern.

Okay. Thanks for the tip on that withdrawl issue. I'll go ahead and do that on my next cycle, because I turned my adrenals up to 11 today instead of sleeping when I should have (could have easily returned to blissful sleep, but needed to shoot thru it to zip to the airport, driving the car w/ my already stressful family). Valuable advice.

Glad you are still stable! Keep it up, and ofc, thanks for planting the idea of GABA analogues in our heads. If you can, for me, I just have 2 minor questions.

1. how can you describe the emotional catharsis you went through when the G really started to have a registered revival effect on your mind and body? It was - at least partly - about becoming more aware that you were in a hellacious scenario and that you were involuntarily ruining ppl's perceptions of you/your own ego's vacancy, yes? The need to feel things again, etc? I feel like everyone will benefit if more views of this process from dead inside to finally alive is mapped, so they know to act on it and not ignore tendencies to feel, dream, fantasize, etc.

2. Can you elucidate what you mean by "hangover"... As in a dopaminergic-like surge/withdrawl, or just straight up absence of the med's benefits? Thanks!

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3pm's Story

erections are easier when my balls respond to sexual stimulation and euphoric feeling to "get closer" to someone.


Not always in pain, nope. I can walk feeling sturdy and not like I'm made of thin melting rubber. But it is coming back, it isn't completely back. I can tell it will take more than 2 or 3 days of this to feel 100%, so...


Ball size is thicker
Balls are closer to body
Scrotum tighter
Penis less thin & more vascularized
Usually feel muscularly more composed, eventually this will = stronger
I get angry and aggressive

and if it matters, I plan on doing a bunch of fucking soon >_>

androgen levels will be the real, last step to curing. I think they are gonna rebound on their own w/ my balls showing improvement. Still a hope at this point, but reason to believe in it.


Never had a facial hair dormancy. In fact I even sprouted minor back hair beneath my latissimus dorsi muscles during the worst of this, near where someone's wings would be planted if I had them. It's very negligible and easily smoothed ofc. My voice is only better when my muscles are feeling fuller and less tight (voice was never a problem, just a minor symptom of monotony). Without that feeling I have less of a vocal range and tend to stay at the low, monotone voice.

& thanks for your congratulations. you will find it even greater news when it's you getting these improvements.

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3pm's Story

I think no theory can be taken on this shit,so the only thing could help to understand what is going on is a bloodtest done from the recovered guys ,it's the only way that could shows something .