PROPECIAHELP: Persistent Finasteride Propecia Proscar side effects info & discussion forum

Where do you buy D-aspartic acid? I just went to my local health food store and they had no clue what D-aspartic acid was.

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/prim ... fl-oz.html

Or

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/nutr ... grams.html

Back to the "excitotoxin" talk, it says directly on Wikipedia that the conjugate base of this substance can cause nerve damage, namely of the NMDA receptor (seemingly in higher doses), which controls memory as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NMDA

It looks like D-aspartic acid converts to NMDA also.

I don't doubt the positive reports here, but just be aware of how much/often you use this.

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3pm's Story

I think the argument that the owner of PP would present is that it's not NMDA in his products. There is no "methyl" on the amino acid they use. He says over and over again it is a naturally occurin amino and not a synthetic one, as NMDA is.

DAA works by converting to NMDA, I don't believe DAA itself does much.
The main study on DAA had this conclusion I believe, I might be able to find it again.

So then my concerns are warranted....

From the sounds of it it's only dangerous in large quantities, large enough to cause seizures/involuntary movement.
But who knows?

I'm not feelin good about it again. I'm going to forward this info to the owner of PP and see what he says....He'll probably ban me from the site.....

Perhaps PM him with the information first, so that way he knows you're not just a fear monger and see if he has a sensible rebutle. I'm sure if he's a decent person he'd appreciate the heads up.

I reached out for him and am awaiting his answer. Just so you guys know it is buy one get one on the TCF right now....

I'm interested to hear the feedback. Has anyone drank a diet soda recently? They are full of aspertame. I tried these a couple of times from the fridge at work over the years. Every time I drank them I got sore, stiff muscles and joints. I expect from the aspertame, their primary ingredient. Does anyone else have the same reaction? It might be a good test for the TCF. If you have apspertame containing products and have a bad reaction but do not from TCF, then you probably create aspertame from TCF.

hmmm, its funny you should mention that i actually have noticed that when i've gone running lately my legs have been a bit sore. i wonder if it's connected to the d-aspartic acid.

any update regarding a reply back from PP regarding brain damage co-relation??

No response....I'm gonna press the issue.

hmm.. dam! i was gona get 1 and get another free.. but now the offer is gna finish!!

I got two more bottles at buy one get one free because they were cheap enough. If I can't get good answers I just wont use the stuff. We now have a bunch of people over at the PP site wondering and asking about the studies I posted over there. Hopefully we get an answer soon.

This isn't a response from the person we are waiting on, but some other dude who decided to throw his two cents in. Figured I'd post it.

don't have the answers you are looking for, but I want to point out a few things.

Wikipedia is a wiki, which means that I can create an account and edit the pages above to read "aspartate tastes like chicken". The point is that one can easily disseminate misinformation via Wikipedia. At least source the studies cited on wikipedia before drawing conclusions. Wikipedia often has useful information, but it often has conflicting, misleading, and misinterpreted information on it as well (as well as information without references). Thus, Wikipedia isn't a reliable source and isn't a "study".


Quote:
it says directly on Wikipedia that the conjugate base of this substance can cause nerve damage...

Here is what I see directly stated on "Wiki" on the excitoxicity page which you mentioned. Aspartate is mentioned twice, both times in the context of traumatic brain injury. The NMDA link you provided doesn't mention aspartate:


Quote:
Brain trauma or stroke can cause ischemia, in which blood flow is reduced to inadequate levels. Ischemia is followed by accumulation of glutamate and aspartate in the extracellular fluid, causing cell death, which is aggravated by lack of oxygen and glucose...

Inadequate ATP production resulting from brain trauma can eliminate electrochemical gradients of certain ions. Glutamate transporters require the maintenance of these ion gradients to remove glutamate from the extracellular space. The loss of ion gradients results not only in the halting of glutamate uptake, but also in the reversal of the transporters, causing them to release glutamate and aspartate into the extracellular space. This results in a buildup of glutamate and further damaging activation of glutamate receptors.[11]

I tried to source study [11] above, and the "item was not found".
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What Wiki has to say about Aspartic Acid and Aspartate:

Aspartic acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Aspartate (the conjugate base of aspartic acid) stimulates NMDA receptors, though not as strongly as the amino acid neurotransmitter glutamate does.[5] It serves as an excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain and is an excitotoxin.

And what does study [5] cited by Wikipedia say?

Structural Features of the Glutamate Binding Site in Recombinant NR1/NR2A N-Methyl-d-aspartate Receptors Determined by Site-Directed Mutagenesis and Molecular Modeling ? Molecular Pharmacology


Quote:
We investigated the effects of mutations in the S1 and S2 regions on the potencies of the agonists l-glutamate, l-aspartate, (R,S)-tetrazol-5yl-glycine, and NMDA.

Aspartate can refer to D-AA, L-AA, or D,L-AA. In this case, it refers to L-AA which is not present in TCF-1.
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Now, some interesting studies about D-aspartate:

D-aspartate exerts an opposing role upon age-dependent NMDAR-related synaptic plasticity and memory decay : Nature Precedings

Quote:
In the present study, we demonstrated that D-aspartate acts as an in vitro and in vivo neuromodulatory molecule upon hippocampal NMDAR transmission. Accordingly, we showed that this D-amino acid, widely expressed during embryonic phase, was able to strongly influence hippocampus-related functions at adulthood. Thus, while up-regulated levels of D-aspartate increased LTP and spatial memory in four-month old adult mice, the prolonged deregulation of this molecule in thirteen-month old animals induced a substantial acceleration of age-dependent decay of synaptic plasticity and cognitive functions. Moreover, we highlighted a role for D-aspartate in enhancing NMDAR-dependent synaptic plasticity through an inducible "turn-on/turn-off-like mechanism". Strikingly, we also showed that D-aspartate, when administered to aged mice, strongly rescued their physiological synaptic decay and attenuated their cognitive deterioration. In conclusion, our data suggest a tantalizing hypothesis for which this in-embryo-occurring D-amino acid, might disclose plasticity windows in the aging brain.

Aspartate racemase, generating neuronal D-aspartate, regulates adult neurogenesis ? PNAS

Quote:
D-Aspartic acid is abundant in the developing brain. We have identified and cloned mammalian aspartate racemase (DR), which converts L-aspartate to D-aspartate and colocalizes with D-aspartate in the brain and neuroendocrine tissues. Depletion of DR by retrovirus-mediated expression of short-hairpin RNA in newborn neurons of the adult hippocampus elicits profound defects in the dendritic development and survival of newborn neurons and survival. Because D-aspartate is a potential endogenous ligand for NMDA receptors, the loss of which elicits a phenotype resembling DR depletion, D-aspartate may function as a modulator of adult neurogenesis.

I'm not Eric, and I probably haven't answered your questions, but I encourage you to dig a little bit deeper than wikipedia before jumping to conclusions.

3PM:

This is what the owner asked:

Where specifically are you seeing the bit about nerve damage from actual NMDA? On the link you posted Im seeing;

"activation of synaptic NMDA receptors only activated the CREB pathway, which activates BDNF (brain-derived neurotrophic factor), not activating apoptosis."

and further stating in the other link;

"in lower quantities NMDA is not neurotoxic"

Besides, injecting high amounts of anything into the brain is going to have toxic effects. Injecting acetyl-choline into the brain will probably cause toxic effects too, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't take efforts to increase endogenous production of it within a reasonable physiological means.

-Eric

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartic_acid


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxin


I'm just saying be careful what you consume. I'm not about to get into a chemistry war with someone defending their product.

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3pm's Story

My left eye kept twitching the other day. That used to happen to me when I chewed certain gums that had Aspartame in it. I'm sure that's not a good a thing.