PROPECIAHELP: Persistent Finasteride Propecia Proscar side effects info & discussion forum

0) Where are you from (country)?

England.


1) How did you find this forum (Google search -- if so, what search terms? Via link from a forum or website -- if so, what page? Other?)

I googled "Propecia Arthritis".


2) What is your current age, height, weight?

37, 6'1", 210lbs (approx)


3) Do you excercise regularly? If so, what type of excercise?

Not enough as I should. Apart from walking the dog, that's about it.


4) What type of diet do you eat (vegetarian, meat eater, raw, fast-food/organic healthy)?

Meat eater.


5) Why did you take Finasteride (hair loss, BPH, other)?

Hairloss.


6) For how long did you take Finasteride (weeks/months/years)?

Almost 7 years.


7) How old were you, and WHEN (date) did you start Finasteride?

I was 30. It was September 2003.


8) How old were you when you quit, and WHEN (date) did you quit?

37. The date was 24th August 2010.


9) How did you quit (cold turkey or taper off)?

Cold Turkey.


10) What type of Finasteride did you use – Propecia, Proscar, Fincar or other generic?

Propecia.


11) What dose did you take (eg. 1 mg/day, 1 mg every other day etc.)?

1mg per day.


12) How long into your use of Finasteride did you notice the onset of side effects?

About three years.


13) What side effects did you experience while on the drug that have yet to resolve since discontinuation?

Put an X beside all that apply:

Sexual
[X] Loss of Libido / Sex Drive
[ ] Erectile Dysfunction
[ ] Complete Impotence
[ ] Loss of Morning Erections
[ ] Loss of Spontaneous Erections
[ ] Loss of Nocturnal Erections
[X] Watery Ejaculate
[X] Reduced Ejaculate
[ ] Inability to Ejaculate / Orgasm
[ ] Reduced Sperm Count / Motility

Mental
[ ] Emotional Blunting / Emotionally Flat
[ ] Difficulty Focusing / Concentrating
[ ] Confusion
[ ] Memory Loss / Forgetfullness
[ ] Stumbling over Words / Losing Train of Thought
[ ] Slurring of Speech
[ ] Lack of Motivation / Feeling Passive / Complacency
[ ] Extreme Anxiety / Panic Attacks
[ ] Depression / Melancholy

Physical
[ ] Penile Tissue Changes (narrowing, shrinkage, wrinkled)
[ ] Penis curvature / rotation on axis
[X] Testicular Pain
[ ] Testicular Shrinkage / Loss of Fullness
[ ] Genital numbness / sensitivity decrease
[ ] Weight Gain
[ ] Gynecomastia (male breasts)
[ ] Muscle Wastage
[ ] Muscle Weakness
[X] Joint Pain
[ ] Dry / Dark Circles under eyes

Misc
[ ] Prostate pain
[ ] Persistent Fatigue / Exhaustion
[ ] Stomach Pains / Digestion Problems
[ ] Constipation / "Poo Pellets"
[ ] Vision - Acuity Decrease / Blurriness
[X ] Increased hair loss
[ ] Frequent urination
[ ] Lowered body temperature

[X ] Other (please explain)

Dizziness and a much more reduced tolerance to alcohol, to the point where I can't even get drunk if I wanted to.


14) What (if any) treatments have you undertaken to recover from your side effects since discontinuation of the drug?

None as yet.


15) If you have pre or post-Finasteride bloodtests, what hormonal changes have you encountered since discontinuing the drug (pls post your test results in the "Blood Tests" section and link to them in your post)?

I had blood tests last year when I presented with the symptoms of MS, but the hospital reckoned that they didn't detect anything abnormal.


16) Anything not listed in the above questions you'd like to share about your experience with Finasteride?

None.


17) Tell us your story, in your own words, about your Finasteride usage and side effects experienced while on/off the drug.

I started losing my hair from the age of 14. Luckily, I had very thick hair to begin with, so it wasn't until I was in my late twenties that it started becoming noticeable. At the age of 30, my then girlfriend broke up with me, and as I was deeply in love with her, this affected my self esteem. For this reason, and the fact that being newly single, I wanted to look my best, and I began using Propecia. This was September 2003. It took a few months to kick in, but I got good results. I got regrowth and no more thinning. As I had no apparant side effects, even after the whole ex-girlfriend thing blew over, I still carried on using Propecia.

I was aware when I started Propecia that this was at the time a drug that had not been around for a while, and therefore doctors were unaware of what the long term risks were. I did go and see my GP around the time I started taking the drug, and she told me (as I expected she would), that she would not recommend me taking anything that was a relatively unknown drug, so to do so would be at my own risk. So I decided to take the risk and I told myself that if I ever started feeling any concerning side effects, then I would stop the drug. I never thought in a million years that there could be the possibility of long term (or at least indefinite problems), which could occur for months or years after stopping the drug.

I first noticed health problems about four years ago, when I started getting these feelings of drousiness, lethargy, insomnia, and depression. They would come and go, but would either all be present at the same time, or not at all. In the end I noticed that there was a link with alcohol, and at the time although I wasn't drinking any more than what I had done since the age of 18, I would get these hangovers for days which would manifest the above symptoms. I had tests done by my GP, and they couldn't find anything wrong. I just put it down to getting older, and assumed that my liver was slowing down as a result. I couldn't help but notice though that none of my male friends who were the same age as me and who drank the same amounts of alcohol or more appeared to not have the same problem.

About two years later, I noticed that I had developed the signs of breast enlargement from holiday photos that I had seen. The difference was noticeable, but not to the extent where it was a problem, so I carried on.

The next thing to occur happened a year ago, when I started displaying the symptoms of MS. My limbs would feel slightly limp and floppy, and it felt difficult co-orinating myself. I suffered from numbness in the face and shoulders, dizziness, and often felt faint and generally very ill. These symptoms lasted about three months. So far (touch wood), apart from some dizziness now and again, they have not returned. I had tests done and to cut a long story short, a Neurologist discovered that I had an Osteophyte (a growth spur), on one of the vertebrae in my neck that was putting pressure on my spinal cord. It did leave me with fatigue and ever since I would get tired out easily. However this has improved over the last few weeks/months.

Over the last year I have also begun to rapidly develop joint pain. This began about a year ago with a small pain in my right knee, and in the last year progressed to pain and stiffness in both knees, back, right shoulder, and neck. It got to the point over the last few weeks where it really made my mobility difficult.

I have had no sexual problems during my 7 years of using Propecia. However some weeks ago I noticed a sudden drop in my libido, and I was becoming much more tired and exhausted after ejaculation. I have also noticed reduced and watery ejaculate. Since then I have not needed masturbation or sex as much. I also noticed that my appetite reduced.

A couple of weeks ago, I happened to come across this forum and it was like discovering a secret cave of important knowledge that I had never discovered before. As a result, I dropped Propecia cold turkey. That was 9 days ago. Since then my breasts have completely returned to normal, and my joint pain has improved dramatically. I have also noticed my appetite increase noticably, but also my dizziness has come back quite badly. I occasionally get very slight pain in the testicles. I am also not noticing any tiredness or lethargy the next day following ejaculation.

I am aware of the possibility of having a crash, but not only has the main cause of my concern (joint pain) improved considerably, but I am loathe to put any more of that stuff in my body. I know i'm taking a risk, but I'll just have to deal with it if it happens.

Take good care of yourself in the next few weeks. Get plenty of rest, eat well (plenty of fruits, veges and lean protein). Try to exercise more. Dont masturbate too much, maybe once a week. Try to stay calm. Take a good multi vite. Also supplement some Vit d3 and some ZMA at night before bed.

You might very well be fine and not crash. I think that your hair is starting to fall out now is probably a good sign.

"Not masturbating should bring prolactin levels down. Prolactin is released after orgasms to keep your libido down. The evolutionary reason for this, anthropologists speculate, is to promote bonding with the female so you don't run off right after looking for someone else to fuck!"

Read this from another post. This may be why many of us have crashed after masturbating several times. I think when some members have seen their bodies change and experience the ED for the first time they panic. Instead of being calm and weening off the drug and relaxing, they quit cold turkey and begin 'testing' themselves to see if they are sexually functional still. Prolactin gets further out of whack and then BOOM. The bomb ignites. I think not masturbating should be emphasized for quitting users along with all the other mandatory items.

Thanks guys. I must admit that I have been masturbating more recently for that very reason, to check that everything is still in working order. However after having read your posts, I'm going to try stop now! This is the thing though, a year ago, stopping doing it completely would have been near to impossible. No it's no big deal.

As I said before, I noticed in the weeks leading up to me dropping Propecia, my testosterone levels had decreased (noticed lower appetite, reduced libido etc, no morning erections). I noticed that during the week after stopping Propecia, my testosterone levels noticeably increased. Normally I have a shave about twice a week, but by the time I shaved a couple of days ago, the growth on my face was more like about a week rather than 3 or 4 days. My appetite also increased dramatically. However now over the last two days it seems to have stabilsed back to the lower level again. I don't know if it's my imagination or not, but the hair seems to have stopped thinning now. But then again I have started using Minoxidil instead of Propecia, so that may be having an effect on my hair already. The main problem at the moment is that surprisingly, the MS like symptoms have come back a little after a year of nothing. I'm dizzy all the time and my limbs and fine motor skills feel slightly clumsy as they did back then. My breasts have still remained at the pre-propecia level though, which I consider a good sign.

Another thing I have noticed is that insomnia has set in this week. I keep waking up between about 4.30am and 5.30am for no reason, and then can't get back to sleep. Curiously though, I don't feel any more tired! It's like i can survive on less sleep!?

I will take your health advice, Boston. I'm going to get the vitamin suppliments you mentioned tomorrow. What is ZMA though?

Thanks.

Alex

I feel a bit of a bond with you mate, we quit at the same time, similar ages, both on it a few years and I live about 30 miles up the road. Hope we can get through this crap together.

ZMA is zink, magnesium and vit b complex. Its made by twinlabs. Take 3 tabs without any calcium and on an empty stomach right before you go to bed.

Thanks Boston. I'm going into town later, so will see if I can purchase those vitamins.

Hi Chris. I've read your "member story", you and I quit on the same day! It's lucky that you didn't end up taking it as long as I did though, otherwise like me, you might be displaying symptoms of Arthritis and MS (although officially like I say there is no trace of dyemylenation of the brain and nervous system).

At the moment the joint and bone aches have got a little more noticeable. The dizziness is still there, and although my co-ordination feels ok, I've already noticed some muscle cramps this morning.

Another thing I forgot to mention in my top post was the fatigue and exhaustion I've had since I had the MS like symptoms last year. This doesn't make exercise easy. I used to go for a walk every weekend for half an hour, but had to give up because I would feel completely exhausted for the rest of the day.

Hi everyone,

It's been exactly six months to the day yesterday since I stopped taking Propecia, so I thought I would update you all to let you know how i've been getting along.

Regarding the sexual side of things, I do not appear to have yet had (touch wood) a crash. The odd thing is that I appear to fluctuate between periods of almost zero sexual desire for say a couple of weeks (as if I have had a crash), and then what appears to be normal Libido. I have noticed recently that diet may also play a role in this. Eating red meat seems to fire up my Libido after a couple of days, whereas eating other kinds of meals reduces it. In an attempt to eat heathier, for the past few months I have been eating more things like Tofu, fish, and seaweed, all of which I am eating on a regular basis. I am wondering if Tofu may been having a dampening effect on my Libido as MartinM told me that it is estrogenic. I have also noticed another scary but interesting thing, during times of zero Libido, my manhood definitely appears to shrink, but when my Libido increases to a normal level, so does the size of my manhood!

Regarding the MS symptoms, I had some dizziness and weakness of limbs in late November for exactly a month, following a drunken holiday weekend. Exactly a month later to the day, these symptoms subsided again and have not been back since. However I had a period last year where they disappeared for months and came back again, so I am not counting my chickens just yet.

I have noticed a radical difference in my body's tolerance to alcohol within the last five years. Before I couldn't go more than a week without having at least one alcoholic drink. Now not only can I take it or leave it, but even just a small amount makes me feel tired, lethargic, and generally ill for days. If anything, my body feels like it’s rejecting it. For the most part I consider this to be a good thing though, because I am more mentally alert now due to cutting being forced to cut down on my drinking.

My main problem at the moment is still the Arthritic pains, which has continued despite giving up Propecia 6 months ago. The joints do not ache all at once, or all the time, but at any one time at least two of my joints are aching, and all my joints have been affected. Since my last posting 6 months ago, my wrists, hips, fingers and toes have also become affected. I still believe that this is Propecia related, as not only myself, but other Forum members on here have described a feeling of joint popping, and a feeling of reduced tension holding together the joints. I went to visit my GP last month, and told her about my joint pain and how I believe it may be linked to having taken Propecia. She arranged for me to have some blood tests done, which included a test for Testosterone levels. I got the results from her a couple of weeks ago. All the tests came back clear. The tests seemed pretty comprehensive. No Rheumatoid arthritis was detected; my Liver, Kidney, and Thyroid functioning is fine, and my Testosterone levels are apparently normal. No virus was detected that could be attacking my joints. I can't really complain at the results, nor really am I in a position to challenge them.

Whether Propecia related or not, I still believe that I have some kind of Arthritis. Apart from anything else, the neurologist I saw explained to me that the MS symptoms are probably the result of the Osteophyte (growth spur) on my spine pushing against my spinal cord. It appears from my own research that the presence of an Osteophyte is usually one of the first signs of Arthritis. I am still not entirely convinced that the MS like symptoms are all down to the growth spur. Surely the symptoms would be there all the time and if anything get progressively worse, not come and go and be influenced by things such as alcohol? Afterall, a boney protrusion doesn’t fluctuate between getting bigger and smaller, it either stays the same size or gets bigger.

What is interesting, and not surprising, is that Arthritis is a disease more common in women than men, due to the presence of Oestrogen.

http://arthritis.about.com/od/arthritissignssymptoms/a/women_arthritis.htm

I still think there is a link here, and possibly the raised Oestrogen levels that we may have experienced have created the arthritis problems.

I still get exhausted easily, and still feel older than my years. I think that this may have improved slightly since six months ago though. I seem to be able to walk longer distances now before I feel exhausted.

Although my breasts reduced noticeably after stopping taking Propecia, I still don't believe that my chest is as flat as what it used to be, or should be.

One of the things that the Doctor did was assess my BMI levels, and we agreed that I am into the realms of being overweight (although this seems a surprise to those who know me) At 6 foot one, my ideal weight should be between 168 and 189 pounds, and I am currently about 211 pounds. The fact is, it’s obvious that she can’t explain where the joint pain is coming from, but we have agreed that I am going to look at losing some weight, and see if that makes a difference. For the last two weeks I have been getting more exercise and eating less. I’ve lost about 4lbs already. If the weight loss doesn’t make a difference, then we’ve agreed that I’ll go back and see her. The joint pain does appear to have improved over the past couple of weeks, but it still early days yet.

It's now been a year today since I stopped taking Propecia.

In terms of the sexual side effects, up until a few weeks ago, my Libido was still fluctuating between periods of normal, strong Libido, and having no interest in sex at all. Over the last few weeks there seems to have been an improvement though, and I appear to have had a normal Libido for some weeks. I still don't have a problem with impotence, and over the past few weeks I have been getting more morning erections.

In conjuction with this, my body seems to not crave the healthy food as much these days, and I feel more like eating my former diet, which was higher in protein. This would be consistent with producing more sperm, as I have always noticed that after ejaculation, the next day my body will want more protein.

Since my last update, I have noticed something that another member on here noticed with themselves, which is that my Scrotum has been colder than what it used to be. Rather than being warmer than most of the rest of my body, it appears to have been the same temperature. However, again in the last few weeks, this may have improved.

All in all there seems to have been general improvement. The only thing that hasn't really improved in my joint pain and arthritic symptoms. This is despite the fact that I continued to follow my diet and have now lost two and a half stone (34lbs). My BMI is now within normal parameters. Once I got down to my target weight, I visited my GP again, to point out to her that the weight loss had not made any difference. She agreed at my suggestion to do some X-Rays, one on my right knee, and the other on my lower back where the two most painful areas where. X-Rays showed up no problem with the knee, but showed up spinal degeneration in the lower back. She told me that this was likely as a result of having a slipped disc some time ago (something I suspected when I first started with the back problem about 15 years ago), but the point was that over the past few months, the lower back pain appeared to have got worse in conjunction with the joint pain issues. Anyway, the bottom line is that apart from that, none of the blood and hormone tests, or X-Rays are showing up any problem, so I'm not really in a position to argue with her! So bearing in mind things haven't been too bad recently, I'm just going to live with it for the time being, and if any of the symptoms get worse, then I shall go back to the GP.

I also appear to still have the same intolerance to alchohol that I developed about 5 years ago, and whilst I can still drink alchohol, just having a few drinks on a night out can make me feel tired, drowsy and breathless for a few days afterwards. I'm not saying this is necessarily Propecia related, but I wouldn't know, because again tests have showed nothing wrong. In the meantime though, although I wasn't a particularly heavy drinker before, at least it gives me a reason to moderate my drinking.

I hope you have all seen some improvement in your symptoms as well.

I have it too. It's probably caused by low T and low E2. Not sure why, but taking DHEA made it go away pretty much immediately, although my T hasn't gone up. Now, I'm taking DHEA daily and I don't have joint pain anymore.

_________________
My story: viewtopic.php?t=3556
My blood tests: viewtopic.php?p=19897#19897

Any update here?

Yes. Sorry. There have been improvements. Certainly things have not got worse. My Libido seems to have improved and I can tolerate more alcohol than what I could since my last posting. The joint pain seems to have gone away now, but then again I don't know if it's gone or if it's actually still there and it's just being masked by the Glucosamine with Chondroitin that I have been continuing to take daily. I ran out of tablets around January time and monitored what happened, but the joint pain started coming back, so I started taking the tablets again. Sperm production seems greater now, my Scrotum doesn't feel cold and I only get ball ache rarely now, and then when I do the ache seems fainter. Another positive sign (which of course I have mixed feelings about), is that over the past few months, my hair appears to have been getting thinner again, despite me continuing to use Rogaine. As I get older though, the less I worry about it.

Sounds like your doing well. How is libido compared to pre finasteride?

Sorry, I didn't realise I'd had a reply. My email didn't tell me for some reason, and I've only just logged back on here after some time.

The Libido is still a problem. It's still nowhere near as strong as it used to be. At the moment I am still able to perform, but I seem to vacillate inbetween having a low libido and not feeling like doing it at all. The ball ache has still gone.

On the plus side, I stopped taking Glucosamine several months ago, and the joint pain didn't come back.

Alex, there is a study starting up in the US that will look into altered gene expression. Please participate. This work will contribute to finding a possible cure.

Thanks. Yes I will have a look into that. Is there a link or thread on this site for more information?