PROPECIAHELP: Persistent Finasteride Propecia Proscar side effects info & discussion forum

Yohimbe was toxic to me, put my heart beat out of time and gave me a belta of a headache, that was off miniumum recommended dose, quality may have been suspect?

Ok, so I tried just taking 1 on a full stomach after a big lunch and what a result! I feel great, like I haven't felt in years, proably back to 04/05 time period. I have tied a lot of things since quiting in January all with mixed results but overall improvement over time but the intensity of orgasim is unbelivable with this stuff. The other sups and the ball zinger made errections easier to get and keep but this really hits the libido and intensity of orgasim. I also feel much more alive on this stuff and have tons of energy. Like I said, I took 2 yesterday on an empty stomach and that was way too much. I could not sit still for 8 years yesterday, got 4 hours of sleep and got up this morning and did work around the house for a few hours. We will see if this continues but I feel better than 100% right now.

I was going to try the Male Response, but noticed one of the ingredients is saw palmetto, which is mean to be worse than fin...
So i am steering clear of it.

I have been using Yohimbine from IronDragon.com for over 3 weeks now and it does seem to have good effects on erections and sensitivity and good orgasms.
I have taken it on both empty and full stomachs, and have not had any side effects, even took it before bed and had a great sleep. Im thinking the Yohimbine does have less sides than Yohimbe...

Im going to just take it on weekends now to give my body a break from it incase it does start to have a bad effect on the body or lose effectiveness.

The more I think about this problem we all seem to be having the more I think it is related to chronic inflamation and nerve responses in the central nervous system. Sure there are some guys with low T and high E etc. but if it were just that TRT would solve that problem in most cases. I look at the things that have helped me the most since I quit and I think most of them help either stimulate my nervous system or helped with inflamation. I think for many guys on here their central nervous system is depressed, that is why alcohol is so bad for most of us because it is a depressant and futher depresses an already depressed central nervous system. When I have say 2-3 drinks I lose a lot of penial sensation and that should not be the case. I have also noticed that I will sometime go 3,4,5 days without a bowel movement, again this has to do with the central nervous system not sending or receving the correct signals. I am not saying to smoke, but that is one reason having a cigarette helps with a bowel movement, same with coffee. I think the nervous system problems cause the inflamation but even without the inflamation we would still have problems. The first problems I started having nearly 3 years ago while still on Fin was prostate inflamation, which is the bodies way of saying something is wrong. As I kept using it for nearly 2 more years it just got worse and worse. Antibotics, inflamatory drugs, etc. all help control the inflamation but they do not fix the underlying problem. I think Yohimbe helps stimulate the central nervous system, improves blood flow to the penis, and calms the inflamation which solves most of the problems we see on this board. Hopefully it doesn't lose its effectivness but I am positve about it so far. Lastly, I don't think we have done any permanet genitic damage by taking this drug and the reason for that is that most of us (me included) have felt close to 100% at one point in time after quiting the drug. If this was serious genetic damage it would be unlikely to see that kind of improvement ever. We would feel consistently bad all the time, there would be no fluxuations. In my opinion, and I am no Dr, this drug has altered the natural chemical state of our bodies over time and if we can correct the chemistry all the hardware will still work fine. Most doctors want to look at T, and DHT, and E etc to solve this problem but I really belive the problem lies more in the central nervous system and nerve responses than any of those things.

What is causing it?

well am i getting retested due to inaccuracies but Omega fatty acids were super low on my test. these are responsible for controlling inflammation

where is this inflammation?

My Omegas were low too, despite taking 9000mg per day for the past 5years or so, as of a test taken in July.

Chronic inflammation throughout the nervous system can be caused by damage to itself or damage to an enzyme that supplies a protein that nerves use for building blocks or a host of other things. Mine feels like I've simply gotten old.

I guess that would be why we respond to anti-inflammatory's then? But why are they short lived?

I think the inflamation is most likely related to "damage to an enzyme that supplies a protein that nerves use for building blocks or a host of other things" as MartinM wrote. I think controlling this inflamation is key to improvement, at least for me. I have been taking the Male Response for about 1 1/2 weeks and wearing the ball zinger in the evenings and I feel much better. My libido is improving, not really strong but ok, my errections have improved and are good, orgasims are much better and my prostate keeps pumping out seaman as I orgasim, not just one pump and thats it. I am still missing the strong morning errections, the kind that just don't go down even when you want to take a piss. As I read the board I realize how lucky I am that I didn't get worse sides than I did. I never had really bad brain fog, my muscel tone is still decent, never got the male breasts, and I only got serious ED at the very end of my propecia useage after nearly 8 years of use. Coming off propecia was harder than most of the time I was on it! I can't belive there hasn't been a 20/20 special or something on this because I honestly belive that the vast majority of men who stay on this drug will develop problems, maybe night right away, but after years of use this drug will cause problems in the vast majority of men.

No those are the sides associated with getting it up unfortunately

Unfortantley that didnt even happen, maybe i got snake oiled

hmm so you got all the sides racing heart sweaty and headache but no erection? that sucks... I dont think thats snake oil because it sounds like Yohimbine to me. It is a very uncomfortable feeling. i ahve been in different places in my sickness where Yohimbine gives me a 100% rock hard erection and a place where i can take as much as a i want and i wont get it up i will only get all the shitty sides. i think the biggest dif is the estrogen levels but i dont really know

I found this online:
http://www.asiatour.com/how_non_subscriber.htm

looks like maybe the idea is to REDUCE norepinephrine. so the gnarly side effects are when you just have too nor stashed in there making it impossible to get an erection and with time you can reduce the amount of it being produced because you are forcing it to circulate rather than hit the receptors and that tells your brain over time to stop making so much. explains a lot about how the sides went away for me and i could get it up fine but then i didnt attribute it to any yohimbe and stopped it. i think im gonna run a 90 day cycle of yohimbe without stopping at all


A large number of neurologically active pharmaceuticals actually do not affect nerve cells themselves but rather the neurotransmitters in between. Yohimbine is such a pharmaceutical. It blocks the receptor sites for the neurotransmitter norepinephrine. More specifically, yohimbine blocks presynaptic alpha-2-adrenergic receptors. By thus interfering with the sympathetic nervous system, the parasympathetic nervous pathway will prevail in controlling a large number of involuntary bodily functions. Peripheral vasoconstriction (a tightening of blood vessels in the extremities) will be hindered, resulting in more blood flow to those extremities. Among the extremities that benefit from this condition is the male erectile organ. Other symptoms of the parasympathetic nervous system being in charge are the increased salivation as well as the increased digestive activity usually noticed when on yohimbine.

Adrenergic blockade can be effected not just by yohimbine but a considerable number of other pharmaceutical agents as well. And those other pharmaceutical agents do not work as aphrodisiacs or medication against erectile dysfunction. Actually, most adrenergic blockage drugs, such as so-called beta-blockers are known to impair sexual function.

To evaluate the effect of the adrenergic blockage caused by yohimbine, we have to be aware of the differentiation among adrenergic receptors. Four different kinds of receptors have been identified: alpha-1, alpha-2, beta-1, and beta-2. They all are binding sites for the adrenal hormone / neurotransmitter epinephrine. All except for beta-2 receptors are also docking sites for norepinephrine. As the adrenal hormones are practically the same for all receptors, the differentiation is effected by the different receptors.

Heart function and blood pressure are more closely correlated to beta-receptors than to alpha-receptors. Your typical medication for high blood pressure is a beta-blocker.

Beta-blockers are known to cause erectile dysfunction, and the reason is probably the same that answers why yohimbine can cause tachycardia (an abnormally fast heart beat). If epinephrine and norepinephrine are artificially prevented from docking at beta receptors (or alpha-2 receptors), this will result in elevated plasma levels of norepinephrine and epinephrine. The hormone / neurotransmitter will then exhibit an increased tendency to bind to those receptor sites that have not been blocked.

Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that in the case of beta-blockers, there will be an increased pressure on alpha-receptors to accommodate the circulating epinephrine and norepinephrine. Alpha-2 receptors have a major function in erections in that epinephrine and norepinephrine have to be evicted from alpha-2 receptors in order for erections to occur. However, the presence of higher plasma levels of epinephrine and norepinephrine (because of a lack of possibility to dock on beta receptors) will make this more difficult to achieve. Therefore, while beta-blockers cause a decrease in blood pressure and slow down the heart, the adrenergic effect on some peripheral organs, including erectile tissue, is increased. Therefore, beta-blockers have a tendency to cause erectile dysfunction.

Like beta-blockers, alpha-blockers such as yohimbine will cause an increase in plasma levels of the adrenal hormones / neurotransmitters epinephrine and norepinephrine. And if the epinephrine and norepinephrine cannot dock at alpha-2 receptors, there will be an increased tendency to dock at beta-1, beta-2, and alpha-1 receptors. This can lead to hypertension and tachycardia (an abnormally fast heartbeat).

Most of the literature on yohimbine recommends daily use, in order to keep unwanted side effects like nervousness and insomnia at bay. The rationale for such a recommendation is derived from basic facts of the endocrine system.

Practically all hormones have the effect of inhibiting their own production, usually via negative feedback carried through blood plasma to the hypothalamus-pituitary axis. The adrenal hormones / neurotransmitters epinephrine and norepinephrine are no exception.

The hypothalamus measures plasma levels of epinephrine and norepinephrine (as well as plasma levels of most other hormones from the adrenals or other glands); if plasma levels are high, no action is taken; if plasma levels are low, the hypothalamus releases Corticotropin-releasing hormone. Corticotropin-releasing hormone then stimulates the pituitary gland to release adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH, corticotropin). Corticotropin then stimulates the adrenals to secret adrenal hormones.

The few physicians who do subscribe yohimbine in the age of Viagra usually tell their patients that problems such as restlessness and insomnia subside after several days into a yohimbine cycle. The following could explain what happens.

On the first days of yohimbine ingestion, plasma levels of epinephrine and norepinephrine are artificially high. They remain high until either the alpha-2 adrenergic blockage has been removed (thus again allowing dockage at these receptors, or until elevated plasma epinephrine and norepinephrine will have been dealt with by the liver. As the hypothalamus definitely senses elevated epinephrine and norepinephrine plasma levels, there will, during the first days on a yohimbine cycle, likely be no release of corticotropin-releasing hormone by the hypothalamus, and therefore no release of corticotropin by the pituitary, and thus no additional release of norepinephrine and epinephrine by the adrenal medulla.

Therefore, when into a yohimbine cycle, it is reasonable to assume that the release of epinephrine and norepinephrine will be down-regulated by the hypothalamus … but only with continuous use.

Apart from presynaptic alpha-2-adrenergic receptor blockade, there may be other elements that contribute to the sexuality and erection enhancing power of yohimbine, though presynaptic alpha-2-adrenergic receptor blockade is probably the most relevant element. It has been noted that yohimbine has an anti-diuretic action, probably via the release of the posterior pituitary hormone vasopressin or even via anti-diuretic hormone (ADH). Vasopressin is also available as pharmaceutical product, and as such, it is sometimes used for its sexually stimulating effect. One can assume that the probable release of vasopressin contributes to the sexually stimulating effect of yohimbine. Yohimbine also has an effect on MAO inhibition (covered in another article).

Unfortunately, everything about these supplements sounds always great on the paper, but it applies to non-Fin people, and certainly can push someone at 90% or 100% to 150 or 200%, maybe more.

With post-Fin people, it's different, we're at a baseline level of 0, and such supplements only can make us climb to 5 or 10%, so, far, far worse than what we were pre-Fin without any supplement.

You can use all the boosters in the world, they will be of no big use if your motor is near 0. These are boosters after all, and you only can boost what you already have.

Sorry to ever sound that pessimistic, but I'm fed up now: I given up my (medical) treatment (DHT, Progesterone, T4/T3), no need to screw things further.

u guys still on this?
What happened? did u quit taking it?