PROPECIAHELP: Persistent Finasteride Propecia Proscar side effects info & discussion forum

No, what you are really trying to do is validate your own beliefs and hopes for continued improvement by getting others to follow (and you hope have success with) your regimen.

Motivate yourself instead of accusing others of not doing enough.

My own progress is validating enough for my beliefs.

Once again, stop trying to act like a victim, it's pathetic. There are no 'accusations' of not doing enough from my side. You just simply never did stick to this guy's regimen, period. So who are you to criticize his story and call it bogus, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Claim of not being an accuser.



Followed by an accusation of not doing enough.



Good for you. It doesn't make it any more based in fact than someone saying they are 100% positive that unicorns exist.

MartinM causing arguments in a positive thread - what a shock.

Quote me exactly where I'm stating you are not doing enough.

Here's the part your self sorry demeanor prevents you from understanding. It's not a matter of doing enough or not doing enough in the point I'm making. You're either following one training schedule, or you are not. There are lots of ways you can work out and each way effects the body in a different way. The way this guy worked out, kept watch of his diet and how strictly he followed this regimen is a very good way of working out with the intention of getting bigger and more muscled. In fact, it's the only way.

And as I stated before, this way of living has been shown to have a very positive effect on a lot of stuff which finasteride seems to have thrown out of whack in our system. Heavy weight lifting and interval sprinting boosts testosterone for example. Interval sprinting also burns fat which helps down regulate estrogen levels. The fact he ran every other day is perfect as well. That means he did cardio training 3 or 4 times a week the right way (interval sprinting). Doing it any more than this is gonna be counterproductive for what you are intending to do. Overdo it and you'll only be burning muscle.

I've always been a gym nut myself and have been into martial arts. I can know that what this guy posted is the proper way to make progress, he knew what he was doing.

Here are some interesting links:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-to-increase-testosterone-naturally/
http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/boosttes.htm
For anyone interested in living a healthy lifestyle and working out I'd suggest to put together a proper training schedule which helps you get to your goals. You're occasional running is not gonna do much for you. For anyone who wants tips, feel free to message me and I'll do the best I can to advise. Just don't let bitter fools like MartinM discourage you.

Seriously dude, you're an idiot.

Seriously dude, you're an idiot.[/quote]

Just something to back up this guys protocol and give everyone some hope:

My system fired up on Tuesday last week. I believe this was a direct result of intense (but short) exercise sessions daily (for 3 months +) and moderately healthy living, inlcluding 1-3 broccoli shakes with ginger + MACA powder + 1 drop nascent iodine each day. I was noticing slow improvement in all areas as a result of this protocol, but nothing like what i felt when i woke up on Tuesday. It's like my body could take no more being forced in one direction, it suddenly flipped over, back to normal. The only issues I am still currently experiencing are that my penis is still not as sensitive as before when flaccid, slower to gain an erection on my own and testicles still more retracted than normal. When erect, sensitivity is returning. I know this by the fact I prematurely ejaculated twice over the weekend, the sensitivity was just too much

The reason I am posting this in this thread is to back up this story and to emphasise the importance of consistent and intense exercise (and the right exercise) in fighting PFS, something i have always felt key to recovery. Note, weights did not form part of my exercise regime and this is not mentioned in mlevyholdens recovery also. Maybe there is something to learn from this.

For your information, my vision issues are 100% gone. All the moisture has returned to my eyes and mouth. I keep turning my head and looking around at things with this beautiful perfect vision. I forgot how amazing everything is with clear vision. It's like i've burst through a bubble back into the world. The blood shot eyes are also almost 100% gone. My body now feels relaxed, my heart beat is normal, steady. My skin no longer feels rubbery and some pores have closed up on my face. My senses (which were dulled somewhat) are all back to normal - in particular smell and touch, which I had not realised had been dulled so much. My personality, enthusiasm, interests have completely returned. It is now the strangest feeling re-adjusting to this new (normal) improved state which has been absent for me for almost 9 months, almost like looking around an unusual art gallery, that's the only way I can describe it.

If this continues for 3 months and my sexual issues completely resolve, I will post in the recoveries section. For now however, I feel like the luckiest and happiest person on the planet and don't even care if my minor sexual issues do not fully resolve. Of course, I am sure there will be many on the forum that think I didn't suffer too bad, but I assure you i did. I've had fucked up blurred vision for 9 months, inability to relax, terrible sleep, all the sexual manifestations of PFS (inc shrinkage, the reason i stopped), rubbery skin, poo pellets, blunted emotions, aching limbs, brain fog, 0 enthusiasm/zest for life, no libido, panic attacks and many thoughts of suicide in the first 5 months - the list is/was long. About the only thing I havent had was gyno and any pain anywhere (although it did feel at times like gyno was brewing beneath the surface and my nipples were often a bit tendor/puffy).

I think I am going to come under fire for being too overzealous on the forum. Yeah i brought a positive attitude along, but that's only because I felt i would try create some positive energy for myself and others. By doing this i was almost trying to convince myself i could recover, even though i kept feeling shitty, my body was deteriorating and i kept reading all this stuff to the contrary. Well anyway, i don't care now, what i did worked and i really think it can for many others too. I don't think many have followed this guys regime (nor mine, or blunted for that matter who is doing very well). If they did, they might get a surprise. However, you can believe me it isn't easy, especially in first 1-2 month or so of consistently exercising. Every day is a struggle, you NEVER want to do it nor get any enjoyment out of it. It's just miserable and you are suffering almost every day with fog and the rest of it, then you can't sleep and you have to do it all again the next day before a working day, which is understandably rough, while your PC monitor messes with your vision some more.

This whole experience leaves me wondering what is the cause of PFS. HPTA must be invovled

well done mate im pleased for you. please give some details of what your exercise consited of and what else u did. i will follow what u say rigeriously.

That sounds great for someone who doesn't react badly to exercise. However, for those like myself who have severe adrenal fatigue (it seems) hard exercise like that will only create debilitating symptoms.

Have you been improving for months now Chi? if so, i am certain you are recovering. Otherwise, it could just be a brief recovery.

UK20..... .Please consider that all effective training routines are progressive and contextual. If you've crashed due to exercising (or rather over-exercising) in the past maybe you could try dialing back the intensity a great deal and pushing your boundaries outwards little by little..... you could sustain a lot of progress this way. You could perhaps try something like yoga, which is gentle and helps to build overall fitness while slowly working more intensive exercises to the mix as time goes on.

All this to say that even if working out hasn't "worked out" for you in the past this is no reason to consign the whole effort to the waste-bin. Try again... try something different. Good luck!

I have to say I agree with Blunted and Chi....... there is ample evidence that lifestyle can have a major/positive impact on our condition and I'll be chronicling my journey soon enough.

Take care. I sincerely wish all of us well.

Such great advice.

I've been saying this repeatedly.

It's all about a systematic approach with any of these treatments.

My pet hate on here is the simplistic posting about things like this. If you are one of these people who appear VERY resistive to exercise then clearly you'll never a very elaborate and progressive approach to slowly, very slowly indeed, try increase your body's tolerace and threshold over a prolonged period of time.

I think since this is so difficult most guys simply dont embark on such exercise plans. That's certainly my impression. I understand it too - i find it difficult to devote myself to exercise at the best of times.

When I first started exercising a 8 months ago, I could only do light band work for 20 minutes. Slowly but surely I have worked up to moderately heavy workouts, although I keep them under 25 minutes. You have to let your body slowly adjust. If you are as bad as UK describes then I would say het on HC and let your body heal for 6-12 months before you try too much exercise.

This line of reasoning simply isn't true. This isn't a "one size fits all" argument. We've seen over and over on this board that people have responded in different severity to finasteride and subsequent attempts to treat persistent side effects both with medical and natural therapies.

Whilst your premise is true

You're incorrect.

Im basing my opinion on basic principles of the human body. Universal principles.

The body's threshold to exercise adjusts over time in an incremental fashion.

Whilst i understand there are some very extreme cases on here ive not once seen proof of any of those sufferers implement a very long term and strategic incremental system like i described. Perhaps the body will resist but i'd like to see it actually put to the test insstead of guys coming on here after a few work outs and posting that they can't exercise anymore.

The devil lies in the detail.

NB: I'm not saying this will cure everyone but ive no doubt it could help many.

Thanks Mens Rea! Of course... you're right .... working out consistently is difficult business "during the best of times"... this is certainly all the more true when battling a monster like PFS. Having said that I hope UK20 and others in his shoes try to incorporate gentle exercise into their lives. I've been a long time gym rat so committing to routines isn 't really a problem for me anymore, but getting over that initial hump and working through the challenge of finding the right intensity to fuel progress is tough. Given our situation though I think it's crucial to give this a serious go.

I can assure you it is not just about gym work, though. It is about a hollistic approach, a complete lifestyle. Fortunately my life before PFS was very healthy and geared towards doing alot of sports (yoga, running, squash, swimming) and to a high standard, which i have done for a long period of time anyway. I have also eaten more and more healthy as i got older, i'm not sure why, i guess i just took an interest in it and so did my family. Therefore, bolting on extra things (e.g. broccolli shakes, early morning routines etc.) and incorporating them into my daily life was not too much a problem. Now i am back to my normal life, i haven't exercised for about 4-5 days and feel normal, i'm starting to live as i was before. As mentioned, i still have some sexual manifestations of PFS, but i am optimistic that these will resolve in time. They are a small concern for me given the amount of symptoms i had

We no longer follow universal principles of the human body as we took a potent enzyme inhibitor that blocked at least three vital hormonal pathways that are responsible for sexual and Neuro-cognitive development and function - and we didn't return to normal upon discontinuation. This unfortunately separates us from the pack of normal horny, hard-penised young males of which your concept of "universal principles of the human body" applies.

Sorry martinM but that's a huge, unfounded statement.

The contact of "universal principles of the human body" pertained to every human being on earth basically. Even genetic freaks, i would imagine.

To say that finasteride somehow subcategories us PFS guys from such basic principles is a wild claim that would take some serious proving. In all reality, if you were right i'd imagine our symptoms would be 10x worse again and we'd be very clearly screwed up in various medical tests (Which we are not).

Therefore you can go dismissing such basic premises, PFS or not.

That said, we can all agree that PFS can certainly change the playing field in which we operate.

Are you or are you not affected by one or more persistent side effects as a result of taking finasteride? Have these side effects gone away upon discontinuation of finasteride or have they not?

Men with persistent side-effects after discontinuing finasteride are already in multiple subcategories:
1) those with androgenic alopecia,
2) those who consumed the potent enzyme inhibitor finasteride
3) those who developed side effects, and
4) those who have side effects that do not go away upon discontinuation of finasteride.

I suggest you read the main propeciahelp.com site. Here is an exerpt from the first page from Dr. Goldstein.:

There is no exact test to test many cronical ilnesses; root causes in most of cronical internal ilneses is not known; there is no (official) cure for most of internal ilnesses (antibiotics are exceptions). By that I dont mean on symptoms releiving drugs.

Basic thinks about most processes in human organism are NOT WELL (OR NOT AT ALL) KNOWN, and that is undisputabile.

Tests are been made only for common, typical pathogens/causes and that is (by any means) not enough for anything.

there is no known test for "PFS", and unfortunately physicsians, which must judge by some objective medical evidence, are left only to trust patients word and as a result they could only direct you to a psychiatrist. thats very sad.

There is solution (inside human organism or in nature as itself), but not in offical medicine and its diagnostic "methodologies".

p.s. feel free to dissagree.


D.