PROPECIAHELP: Persistent Finasteride Propecia Proscar side effects info & discussion forum

I scrolled through our blood tests and noticed that most of us have very low PSA. Do you know what that means? http://www.usrf.org/news/070703_finasteride/Longtermeffectsof6D1E3.pdf (just search for PSA and you'll find the proof)
PSA is the main component in the prostatic fluid and it's needed for the semen to be healthy. It's produced by the epithelial cells in the prostate. The same ones that need DHT to live and that die when taking finasteride. It's also secreted into the blood stream and can be measured there. It's only done to diagnose the opposite, though: high levels reflect too much prostate growth. Now, if we have low PSA long after the treatment, it means the cells are probably not planning to recover in the near future.
If you have low PSA, I assume you also have watery transparent semen with low volume, because a very important component is missing: the prostatic fluid (or maybe also the fluid from the seminal vesicles?)
Can anybody now please show me enough people who have taken finasteride and still have a PSA score in the higher quartile of the reference value to prove my theory false? Doctors want it to be lower than 4 ng/ml as their main goal is to fight prostate cancer and increasing (inflammation), but it clearly can't be normal, if one has no PSA at all (0 ng/ml). I see values of 0 to 1,5 here. That doesn't seem okay. I would prefer 2 to 3.
I myself have only 0,51 μg/l.

I have 0,8 ng/ml and had 0,7ng/ml nearly 2 years ago (I quit Fin nearly 3 years ago)

And how is your semen? Is it low in volume and transparent or not? My theory is that PSA should be reflecting that.

My PSA is .6 (0-2.5). My semen is unchanged in appearance post finasteride.

It means that the signaling of AR responsive genes is not functioning correctly. PSA is an androgen responsive gene:
http://carcin.oxfordjournals.org/content/22/3/409.full

This is the exact same reason why most of us have low 3a-diol-G. The enzyme which reduces DHT to 3a-diol-G (3a-HSD) is also induced by AR gene expression.

A dysfunctional AR signal will logically result in a lowered activation of AR mediated processes. This in turn can cause prostate problems, muscle loss, fat increase, sexual problems, you name it.

I know the scientists are looking for the root cause can the prostate be fixed once more info is discovered or once it's damaged by this poison it's done.I think we are all scared that damage cannot be fixed hopefully it can.

But still, how does it look like?
Mine is watery, transparent, low in volume and doesn't fly as strong, but it wasn't like that before. I know some, maybe even many men naturally have that kind of semen. I assume they also have low PSA values congenitally and mine probably was higher.

My PSA is 1.0 on a range of "0.0-4.0". My semen is not watery (as it was while on fin) but very dense with yellow agglomerates (more agglomerates if I don't ejaculate for some days).
The volume is off the range: 7.3 on a range of "2.0-6.0", but I remember that pre and while on fin it was even more...

The fertility is ok.

PS: quitted 7 years ago after 5 years of poisoning. The spermiogram is better now than when I did it 6 months after quitting the drug. Symptoms are always the same, but probably something has improved...

PSA - 0.61 [0.00 - 2.50] ng/mL

I also test low out of range for 3 adiol-g on every blood test. My semen is the same consistency but its yellow, also before finasteride i would have precum now its basically non existent

_________________
My story: http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3923
My bloodwork: http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5107

Semen is less watery than the months after quitting Fin. It is mid-point between water and consistent white (it is somewhat clear grey, it was pure water after quitting).

There was very, very few semen even after many days of abstinence after quitting, now there is a reasonable amount, and abstinence plays a role in that again.

It's okay for the semen to be watery, but what matters is the change. Does it look the same as it did before taking the drug? It has to become thicker due to abstinence.

Of course not.



I have to check that, but I don't think so. However, I noticed there was more quantity due to abstinence whereas in the following months after quitting, abstinence didn't change a thing. There is some progress here.

0.5 is low?
man people are seriously misinformed in here

0.5 means that there is damage in the prostate. Prostatic proteins are leaking in order to be measured from the PSA assay. That is definately not normal.

even 0.1 means that there is inflammatory damage in the prostate and active AR function

prostatectomy cancer patients with a marginal change from 0.1 to 0.2 are considered to be in a reactivated form of cancer

who's spreading all sorts of bullshit in the internet about 0.5 PSA being low??

a young man with healthy prostate should have 0 PSA. ZERO.
people with >4 = high possibility of prostate cancer unless they have active prostatitis. ACTIVE.

Also some cases of BPH + prostatitis cause PSA to rise but in a fluctuating way that means it may go over 4 but then return to 1 or 2 or less.

Anyways PSA is not always a valid measure of prostate health especially if it fluctuates to or over 4 then you need fPSA.

But in no case whatsoever in a young man 20-30 year old a value of 0.5 is considered low. It means there is something GOING ON something is damaging the prostate

Pls post scientific papers that state and support this exact claim.

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I don't post scientific papers
This is basic medical knowledge
Its not my fault that noone in here or very few people understand the basics of medicine but tend to explain the outmost of science fiction.
There is no science paper that will overshadow basic medical logic.
Scientific papers made your doctors prescribe you Finasteride

PSA reading should be zeroish if you are healthy.
If you did damaging activities to your prostate like had heavy sex sessions or rode a bike for a few hours and measured PSA it could be logic to have some reading.
If not, then anything over 0.1 to 0.2 (lets include some statistical errors too) means something is going on. It is not 100% healthy. Not 100% unhealthy. But there is activity in your prostate and in most cases activity in there means something is being damaged slowly over time. Growth/inflammation etc etc. Especially the 0.5 + values.
Find an 18year old and tell him to test for PSA
Once i had a PSA of 0.2 and i was surprised and that was prior to fin.
Today i have 2.5

Studies indicate that digital rectal examination may reveal evidence of prostate cancer in some patients with normal PSA levels (less than 4.0 ng per mL). One study revealed that approximately 20 percent of prostate cancers with aggressive features occur in men with normal PSA levels. According to the report, nearly 75 percent of cases of prostate cancer are associated with an abnormal PSA level

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2000/0815/p883.html

there is your study/protocol whatever you want to call it

I'm not here to derail this thread but what you have posted is your opinion only. Blaming the reader for not being educated when the onus is on you to prove your statements with scientific evidence is a cop-out. Such behaviour will not be tolerated.

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http://www.europeanurology.com/article/S0302-2838%2811%2900860-8/fulltext

In most published series, median PSA levels in the general male population

range from approximately 0.4 to 0.7 ng/ml in men in their 40s

and from approximately

0.7 to 1.0 ng/ml in men in their 50s.

Evidence from both nonscreening and screening populations has demonstrated the predictive value of a single baseline PSA measurement for prostate cancer risk assessment. Specifically, men with baseline PSA levels above the age-group-specific median have a greater risk of prostate cancer diagnosis during the next 20–25 yr. Additional studies confirmed that higher baseline PSA levels at a young age are also associated with a greater risk of aggressive disease, metastasis, and disease-specific mortality many years later.

is this clear enough??

0.4 - 0.7ng/ml in men in their 40s
0.7 - 1.0ng/ml in men in their 50s

what age group are you in so i can make an assumption about your condition?

as i said at age 24 i had PSA of 0.2. That was one month prior to fin and both me + microbiologist where surprised


people here post outrageous things without being censored and when you hear the utter truth you don't like it?
well this is the truth

I don't blame noone in particular but everyone in general who gets misinformed systematically

posters in here 99% don't have the elemental medical knowledge needed to judge things and rely their credibility on whatever they google out as scientific research to suit their thinking

accept the truth and move on

Solonjk, you stated "0.5 means that there is damage in the prostate."

I asked you to provide published scientific evidence to support this claim.

The info you posted relates to prostate cancer screening and states "median PSA levels in the general male population range from approximately 0.4 to 0.7 ng/ml in men in their 40s". Those are considered NORMAL values (ie, no problems, no damage etc).

So, please provide scientific evidence that "0.5 means that there is damage in the prostate.", which you still have not done, considering "median PSA levels in the general male population range from approximately 0.4 to 0.7 ng/ml in men in their 40s" and "0.4 - 0.7" is considered NORMAL, based on the info you just posted.

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You can try harder than that
Next time i will post you my urology exam paper and grades
Or have my professor post in here because you act like a retard sometimes

0.4-0.7 is found in 40yr old men (the BPH process has started in most of them by the age of 40 + including possible inflammation)

when a man of 25 has a PSA reading up to 1(like the posters above) this is NOT NORMAL. Take it or leave it.
there is no scientific paper suited for everything you wish to degrade or upgrade in your mind
it is basic knowledge. I ve had 13 weeks of urology clinics. What the fuck did we see there? PSA readings at their most. People with inflammation had readings. Healthy people, healthy young people had undetectable PSA.

This is the end of story

If you don't like something i cannot help you with that.
Medicine is not math it is logic first of all