PROPECIAHELP: Persistent Finasteride Propecia Proscar side effects info & discussion forum

dgreene, the health system in the UK is SO slow. If i wanted a blood test, i'd need to book in and it would take 2 weeks. From experience, by that time i wouldn't be recovered anymore! Maybe if the recoveries become more stable i will try and do this. I had a pretty bad day yesterday; joints are popping mad again too. Although sleep isn't too bad, i'm waking up looking and feeling like a shit bag. That said, still i feel better than 6 months ago, I just need to find the way out again. I'm already working on it and will keep you posted.

On the upside, after some initial difficulties the sleep centre that my GP referred me, they now fully believe my case and all symptoms. They are actually fast tracking me because they've taken such an interest in my case. I will being seeing one of the leading professors in sleep problems in the coming month or so.

you've talked about how sensitivity changed over these past months...where exactly do you feel less?? How's the sensitivity around the head?? or is it on the shaft?

I had all sensitivity return during my recovery before christmas, proof it's not permanent! During this most recent recovery, i'd say the only sides i still suffered with were dulled sensitivity and lowered libidio. My penis insensitivity is probably worst at the head, as in where the g-spot is, but the shaft is also numb. I can feel it though, just nowhere near as much as before

When my penis is dead like that it itches a lot. I read that is due to lack of blood and possible even high estrogen levels.

Not had an itchy cock yet, no.

However, during most recent recovery and also up until a couple of days ago, my skin around my entire body was very itchy in places. Although not in the same place, just random places: at one point my calf, next my back, later my foot. I thought this was maybe something to do with 5-ar II being reactivated or changed somehow. It's gone now, but was very present during recovery mode.

Source?

Update 23/01/2011

Tomorrow will be my one year off propecia. The date 24th January will be forever etched in my mind as the single worst day in my life. I put most the blame on the Belgravia Centre in London, for misleading me about the side effects and for prescribing me this medication, but I also blame Merck, for marketing and developing such a destructive drug that smashed the amazing life I was living into a million pieces. In terms of my progress to date, I think it's all here, in this thread. Progress is not straight, so I don't know if I am heading towards improvement really. At the moment, I am really terrible, after feeling so good not too long ago. My emotions are completely dead right now and everything else has cascaded downwards into the dark place i've grown to hate, but have to live with.

In terms of the future, I think I need to move on a bit. I am beginning to think, to realise, that this problem is so much more complex than I am ever going to understand. This is the first time since this all began that I do believe there is an androgen problem. I just don't know what that is or whether some form of AR problem is really the route cause. I just don't understand this, but that doesn't mean it cannot be the route cause. Whatever the problem is, it seems near impossible to escape from. For me, I am beginning to realise the condition might be permanent. I live an extremeley active and healthy life (weights, squash, running, trekking, plenty of fruits and veg) even while living with PFS, and I still cannot recover 1 year on. I'm trapped and each time I almost escape it gradually reels me in again and right now my world is completely flat.

I have a big (internal) job move coming up in the next few months, so I really need to try and get my mind in the best possible condition for that. Work is a big struggle while having absolutely zero emotions, so i'm not sure how it will all play out, if I will last etc. I am also concerned about the distant future with my girfriend (e.g. kids etc.), but generally, right now, our relationship is going very well, despite my condition. Sexually, although i have no libido and ED, I can have sex. In seeing that she is the single best in my life, I want to try and get my focus on her and also on my career now. The path ahead is immeasurably worse than before, but nevertheless it's a path to somewhere as i'm not one to jump off, so I have to live it, the best I can. With all this in mind, I'm going to leave the forum for a while. I don't know how long, but most likely indefinitely, unless I fully recover (unlikely) to which I will of course come back and post.

I will continue to work on the myriad of issues that propecia has left me with, by first seeing out the sleeping consultations with my sleep centre and then on to acquiring Xyrem/GHB through whatever means. I don't think I will post back meanwhile though; unless, as I said, I fully recover. So.... sayonara, goodbye and good luck!!

Chi

I just wanted to post an update after being away from the forum for over 2 months or so. I don't want to stay on too long so i will mainly keep this post to bullet points.

- Someone who isn't me bought GBL and everything he needed to convert it properly
- Someone who isn't me did so on several occassions with varied success
- Someone who isn't me has benefitted hugely in terms of mental symptoms as a result of the deep sleep that GHB can induce
- Someone who isn't me can see how one can fully recover through this method
- Sexual symptoms have improved too for said person, though it is difficult because they feel that the GHB dosage through this method is inconsistent and varied
- My body continues to pull me back into PFS state, however the above finding offers hope

Regarding the sleep centre

- I have had my first consultation with the sleep centre
- I have also had the actual sleep study, it was a typical awful night sleep and all caught on camera with brain sensors and everything
- I have my second consultation with the sleep centre coming up
- They are aware that i wish to try xyrem
- They continue to be very supportive and I do believe should i get my sleep fully back on track i should recover, but it may take time

Regarding my current symptoms

- I am much much better on the mental front as a result of good sleep
- It is hit and miss, but i am better on the sexual front in general (just not right now, see below)
- I currently have some depression.... but this is related to some other things that have happened in my life, excaerbated by the underlying propecia side effects i am yet to fully recover from

Regarding things that have happened in my life

- I had a horrendous car accident driving at 70mph on the motorway. There is no explanation for it other than the left front suspension snapped somehow and the wheel came off, causing me to career off the road and almost die crashing into the motorway barriers. It was horrific and i am not good mentally as a result, let alone propecia symptoms
- My cock and balls have deterioted through the horror of the incident and worry over the insurance claim etc.
- I am struggling to move out of home and buy my first house with my girlfriend because we don't have enough deposit and live in one of the most expensive areas of the UK
- My parents have nothing to offer me in terms of financial support, which makes things very difficult in the UK (you basically need £60K for deposit anywhere near London)

Regarding my current state

Right now I am not good. I can think more clearly as a result of the better sleep, but this whole saga has destroyed my resolve. I have tried so hard to fight this thing over the past 14 months, i just don't feel i have much more to give. The rays of hope for me lie with the sleep centre, but even if i do recover my sleep through them and potentially most other symptoms, the fact that i have even been through so much torture will stay with me forever. It is soul destroying, but i am mostly numb right now. I still have a lovely girlfriend, but i do not love myself that much anymore, which makes it much harder to love another person. I used to really like who i was. I was strong minded, fit and healthy, intelligent, witty, everything. Now i am not proud of who i am. It is clear i am very depressed.

It is amazing that this incident really puts into perspective how small and insignificant we are. Wiping myself off the planet tomorrow wouldn't make a blind bit of difference bar from the few people that care around me. Whereas before all this i felt i had so much to offer the world and people around me, i felt special or unique in some sense, but realise now it was never the case. I was nothing, it just takes something to wipe the testosterone and happy emotions from you, for you to see what you really are.

I'm really sorry this is depressing, unstructured and wordy. I guess it's the only place i can come and release what has built up in my head.

Thanks for reading if you made it to the end !

Chi

Thanks for coming back and posting chi. Hang in there.

Chi thanks for coming back.

Things sound tough right now but i know you're an awesome guy and you'll slowly improve. Keep on the right and appreciate those small mercies we enjoy.


If you need a chat hit me up man.

i agree. you'll never forget the day you took and quit fin. in my case i took it only for 7days to be sexually damaged. the mental sides are gone but not down there.

you think you are a nobody?
you think you were someone but then you realize you weren´t?
yes we are smaller than we think thats right.
this life , in this time, with this society, with the political correctness and with these rats full of them on the streets, becoming more and more... everything is complicated. it was complicated enough without bein a zombie!

i watched many youtube videos these days ...
i watched motivating videos like the speech of the new Rocky movie with stallone.
i watched the video with pacino and his speech at Any Given Sunday.
i had tears in my eyes when i saw the video with the runner and his father helped him because he got injured .
he didnt stop , he ran and and ran until the end. and his father helped him.
we help each other here.!!!

forget heroin.
this is worse!!!


well , before becoming a zombie, i though different about healthiness.
sorry for writing so much but i didnt communicate with anyone this month more than 15 sentences..
good luck to everyone

I just read thru the entire thread Chi. I hope you will be posting in the future. You have given me hope. I find I have the same sides except for the vision problem.

Take care and never give up!

Chi I'm from near London too, with very similar symptoms to what I hear from you.

Would be good to get in touch, just to see how we progress with similar local health bodies etc.

PM me whenever :)

Andy

Thanks all for your words of support

For your information, before the car accident and my depressive post above I was actually starting to do very well through the use of GHB, but this seemed to throw everything off again and it's been difficult to get it back on track. I guess what I am saying fits quite well with Paul Waters view on keeping emotions low while trying to recover through GHB. Emotional ups or downs seem to burn through any resource thats built up in the body and your back to square one very quickly. Going back to before this incident though, I recall a very interesting evening where I actually got very excited about texting another girl and had a natural reaction downstairs. First genuine time in 14 months. I knew the GHB was working but this really cements it for me as the recovery solution. The only problem is getting it the proper route is proving a tough task (after the 2nd consultation with the sleep centre they want me to do all sorts of other things first) and making it yourself is quite tricky to do if you want it to be very good quality; not to mention it's illegal. That said, a person who isn't me has recently bought some more equipment to really refine the production process. They tell me that they are now doing GHB powder, instead of liquid, which, frankly is absolutely disgusting. This method offers quite a bit more hope, because drinking GHB even when mixed before bed and in the middle of the night is awful. I tended to not do it in the middle of the night because if you don't sleep it off you are screwed the next day, seriously. I did exactly this at quite high doses 2 nights on the trot and was completely screwed for about a week; dizzy with balance problems. It just goes to show how desperate I am experimenting like this, but anything is better than living with PFS. Take it from me though, GHB isn't the answer alone. You need to get your life and mind in order too. The human body can't cope with having horrendous car accidents, let alone while having PFS. I was doing really good before that happened. Good thing I am now confined to buses and trains.

I'm not sure what the latest stance on PFS theories is, but my bet is it is 100% GABA related, and the other problems cascade from there. I would imagine this GABA problem is up in the brain (which is where the GABA receptors are as i understand it), and thats why GHB works, by agonising GABAB receptors. The increased GABA in the system helps GABA dependant tissues downstairs. Better sleep also means more growth hormone release and in turn better testosterone because there is an interrelationship here. Ever noticed that your testes are bigger when you sleep longer and deeper? Well I do, and I attribute that to growth hormone release and subsequently higher testosterone. What I figure is I need to put my body into deeper, longer, continuous sleep in order to recover, but it's seemed near impossible to date. This is where I come to a brain problem of some sort and the use of GHB as an antidote to correct this. Who knows, but thats my view. I read something super interesting earlier which further supports this route for me. Did you know that GHB is actually found in wine? Look it up. Funnily enough months ago I was saying how wine made me feel better and more horny the day after use, look it up on the forum. I had definitely observed wine as a particular trigger for an uptrend, not just any alcohol. I find this quite interesting.

OK, really, I am going for a while but take care of yourselves. I do believe we'll get there, but it would be good to see Awor taker a deeper look at the GHB cases through scientific eyes.

Cheers
Chi

I am sorry to hear of your setback after gaining back some ground. It is unfortunate that you need to resort to risky self treatment for this, but I can understand why you would try it. I really hope that your 'experiment' kickstarts some kind of a sustained recovery. This has the potential to help many others.

Regarding your theory that the brain's GABA channels are the root cause: I am completely on board with this theory. Based on the reasearch that I have done and how I feel, I am also certain that Fin messed up the proper function/modulation of GABA within my brain. It is likely that GABA plays a role in the whole pituitary control system. If some aspect of pituitary control is out of whack, then the 'master gland' is also likely affected. This can cause cascading proplems down other chemical pathways: HPTA, adrenal axis, etc... Hormone therapy may help to restore function to these secondary axes, but I really doubt this is addressing the root problem - which I believe to be neurological...

Do your best to keep your head high and stay calm. The brain does heal, but the healing will not occur over night.

Best of luck!

Chi, since I signed up here, I've been following your story closely. You've given me insipration to keep fighting, and I loved your anecdote about the time you bought a prostitute to test your sexual abilities.

_________________
"Finasteride was well-tolerated." Merck

"DHT does not appear to have any essential physiological role in the adult male." Merck to the FDA, November 1997

Chi, not sure how it can be 100% GABA related when most of us have different colour of semen and suchlike.

I think it's a factor in a very complicated puzzle.

I recently saw a specialist for pain near my prostate and numbness in my penis. He ran several tests and told me he was confident I had pudendal neuropathy. He told me not to run or do any weightlifting, he even said to climb stairs one at a time. He said it can take years to heal - I think because it is so easily aggravated. I know there are several members who have been given the same or similar diagnosis. I would reconsider your "extremely active life" as it may be aggravating your condition.

Good luck with the GHB. My sister's brother has a friend who has expressed an interest in a GHB homebrew. Any info you have I will gladly pass on to him.

Good luck Chi and glad to see you around.
Tlecum