PROPECIAHELP: Persistent Finasteride Propecia Proscar side effects info & discussion forum

Hey Softie, just wondering if you ever gotten around to taking Diesel Test Hardcore?

I've been looking into the stuff alot, and i found this double stack of Diesel test Hardcore and Trib Test Extreme which i think can be very effective for some of us.

http://www.getdiesel.com/pages/extreme_double.htm

And as if that's not enough, they have a TRIPLE stack which they claim increases free testosterone by up to 600%!!!

http://www.getdiesel.com/pages/hardcore_threekings.htm


I'm considering starting on the double stack very soon and see how i respond to it, and then possibly moving up to the triple stack if i still dont feel 100%

A word of caution to anyone who wants to try supplements that actually do what they're claimed to do:


A rise in free testosterone that is too dramatic can actually result in a reduction in libido since the hypothalamus notices the sudden surge of the stuff and in turn reduces LH production. This is what happened to california who I've been talking to through PM. He pretty jumped right into taking sustain alpha and diesel test and it was counter-productive. I was not educated enough at the time to tell him how to do things properly.

So basically I suggest easing into taking this stuff, for example take sustain alpha for about 2-4 weeks and then slowly start adding in other stuff like diesel test if you feel it's necessary. Don't just start off taking that crazy triple pack.

In addition to the supplements mentioned above, you may also want to check out the new supplement called Coq Diesel, which has been recently released for the sole purpose of sexual function.

Here's what Chuck Diesel said to me in reply to a thread on anabolic minds:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Skiba
Bump

I'm not trying to bring the company down in any way, Diesel Test Hardcore has been working pretty nicely for me, and like the person above me stated, combined with alpha sustain libido is through the roof.

The reason I'm asking is because a friend of mine actually told me his testicles got smaller and he got a reduction in libido and worsening of his ED problems. Keep in mind the guy already had ED problems.

So please, just tell me, what might possibly cause someone to have a reduction in libido from taking DTH? The label on the bottle already says this is possible, I'm just curious as to why exactly.

Chuck Diesel:

Ive posted why this happens a few times on getdiesel.com

Basically no one responds to the same dose of DTH. If I for example take 6/day my libido will drop because my free test rises pretty easy from DTH. Thats basically what happens when you take DTH and your libido drops, your free test is going up 2 fast and the loopback is a reduction in LH.

This is one guys lab work for using one of the early versions of DT:


before-------------------after
Prolactin-17.7 (2.5-17.0)------- Prolactin 10.6 -7.1 or -40%
Cortisol-21.4 (4.0-22.0) --------Cortisol 14.0 -7.4 or -35%
Estradiol-<20 (<57) ------------Estradiol <15 -5 or -25%
FSH-2.1 (0.7-11.1) ------------FSH-2.0 -0.1 or -4%
LH-3.5 (0.8-7.6) ------------LH 2.3 -1.2 or -35%
TSH-3.65 (.45-4.50) -----------TSH 2.79 -0.86 or -24%

Total Test. 373 (189-1111) Total Test. 485 + 30%
% of Free Test 2.29 (1.1-2.8) % Free Test 2.38 about same
Test, Free-85.5 (40.0-150) Test, Free 115.2 +35%
________

Basically a real jump in free test will reduce your LH because LH converts DHEA to testosterone. I had a chart on it but I cant find it right now.

So thats why if you are taking 5/6 DTH a day and your libido goes down, you need to reduce your dosage to 2/3/4 day.

Some people dont need to exceed 2 DT a day, some people need 6. It just depends.

Thats always been a goal of each change in the DT formula of mine it to provide a huge jump in free test and total test without reducing LH. DTH (red bottle) is pretty good at that where most people on 5/6 day see just more of a increase in libido and free test.

Most people in post cycle therapy or with really low test dont get this loop back as in with this guy:

Total Testosterone - from 176 ng/dl to 457 ng/dl (normal range 240 - 820)
Free Test - from 3.5 to 13.4 (normal range 8.7 - 25)
Lh UP from 1.2 to 4.1

Soooo

Total test increased 260% or 2.6 fold almost 3X increase
free test increased 383% 3.83 fold almost 4X increase
LH increased 342% 3.42 fold almost 3.5X

estodiol went up a little from 19 to 22 about 20%
[url http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=800994](*!*!*!*! Diesel Test 2010 Log w/ Bloodwork !*!*!*!* - Bodybuilding.com Forums)[/url]

Most herbal test boosters at any dose wont cause this drop in libido because the rise in total and free test isnt that signifigant. Another example are stong antiestrogen products. They crush libido because they increase test so much most users of Anti-estrogen drugs libido goes away.

I will try to find the loopback chart later.....time to hit back and bi's and I took 4 r4w an hour ago and Im getting anxious to get to the gym.



Go here if you wanna see the original thread at AM:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/get-diesel-nutrition/86675-reduction-libido-cause.html#post1233933

On a final note I did try diesel test before, and yes I definitely did feel it working and can definitely see that it is a solid but powerful supplement, unlike that weak paravol bullshit. I'm taking a little break from all the pills for now, but I am definitely going to get back into it since I have bottles of the stuff left and there's no point letting the money I spent on it go to waste. I'm gonna try to use it to my advantage and gain a little muscle mass as well just to truly make myself in a better physical state than before I took propecia and to truly make this a learning experience that I ultimately benefitted from.

Softie,

Do you get consistent morning erections? E.g. how often would you honestly say, and of what quality??

Also, how were these prior to your recovery, after coming off fin? Could you give us all a little reminder..

B~

Yes I get morning erections every day pretty much, and they are at the quality of being like a redwood tree, so basically it gets hard enough to penetrate, and have some awesome morning sex. I also get random erections all the time basically, even when there is nothing sexual on my mind, it can be slightly embarassing sometimes and make me not want to stand up haha.

When I was still suffering, I used to rarely ever get morning erections, and they would generally be only halfway hard.

Not to be a dick, but this is kind of a redundant question you've asked me since I've described my situation many times on here. I will probably get new blood work done when I can gather enough cash possibly, but I also might not because it is pretty much unneccesary as I feel great and that's all that really matters.

Thanks for your response

Although it would be good to get bloods, if of course you think finding the real answers to these questions is necessary, because we can then see if anything drastic had changed, and hence why!!
Diesel Test Hardcore!!!!

I think people on this forum need to start thinking that what they have is really not so bad, it's not like we were diagnosed with cancer or anything.

This sort of thing happens to people of all ages for different reasons. Your guys's condition is not at all really different from people who have used steroids in the past. This sort of thing also tends to happen to people as they age, and even happens to people if they are overly stressed out at any age.

The good news is, it is almost always a temporary condition... even if it does last years for some people. Legitimate treatments do exist, whether they are supplements, drugs, or lifestyle changes, it just really helps to be educated. It also helps to be under the age of 40, but I would not even think that is a good enough excuse.

I'm really happy that on the top of this forum it says the word UNRESOLVED as opposed to PERMANENT, because that is what it really is, no one should start getting all suicidal over this, it's not like we had our nuts chopped off.

Check out this thread off anabolic minds of someone I've been helping out who apparently has the same issues as many on here, but caused only by stress.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/87358-test-results-dead.html

Its easy for you to say because you never had your penis all shrunken up, lifeless and cold, shriveled with veins popping out like it was going to fall off or something, and impotent!! Like some other dudes on here. I see where you're getting at dude, but dont let your newly revived super-cock now get to your head just because you're getting ass again.

hi big softie,

i've recived today both sustain alpha and diesel test from USA reading your posts i don't understand: how many squirt of sustain alpha i must apply? one? two?

thank you very much!

Big Softie, did you drink alcohol after recovery? If yes, did it cause some sides again? If not, are you going to try?

To way:

For sustain I think it's 4-5 lotion pumps or 40 sprays, depending on whether you use the spray or the pump. Make sure you at least use sustain for 2 weeks or so before you start gradually introducing diesel test hardcore, like I posted earlier too quickly a surge in testosterone can be counter-effective. The bottle should have come with instructions on how to use it.

To peres:

Yes I've gotten drunk without it really effecting me, I can even perform while under the influence of vodka. I can notice a decrease in libido during circumstances where anyone else would feel a decrease, like if I am exhausted but it is totally normal and I tend to get hard right before I go to sleep. Also any sort of adrenaline rush I might get, even if it is not sexual, seems to have more of a kick to it. For example if I'm driving my car fast and I see a cop up ahead.


Also if anyone is interested, diesel test seems to have a competitor product which goes by the name of activate extreme.

Big Softie, Big SoftiE, Ohhhh, big Softie can u save me!!! j/k....

thanks!

how about smoking? do you know if it has an adverse effect on post-fin recovery/testosterone and if it can hamper the effectiveness of sustain alpha/diesel test?

and also, would you recommend starting the sustain alpha first then introducing the diesel test, or the other way around? or does it even make a difference?

thanks

I do not think that cigarets have anything to do with the recovery process. Cigaretts boost dopamine if anything, but I am far away from saying that it will help you:)

...2nd day on sustain alpha and i feel a light pain at the testicles... is that normal

Yeah it is, that's the feeling of your nuts getting used to making more testosterone than before, when you take finasteride it actually does the same thing, although by a different mechanism (reducing HPTA feedback by reducing DHT instead of Estrogen).

Also it would be wise to acknowledge that cigarettes do affect the whole body, not to mention that blood flow is actually pretty important... which brings me to my next point:

It is important to remember that not everyone here may be suffering from the same condition, I was talking to california and he actually went to a doctor and got diagnosed with the fact that his penis is only getting 40% of the blood flow it's supposed to and thats what the cause of his problems is and it had nothing to do with hormones, so it's definitely important to go to a respected doctor who won't tell you there's nothing wrong with you and get a proper diagnosis. I lucked out and the stuff worked for me, but that doesn't necessarily mean it will work for you. You just might have some sort of underlying condition that you never knew about.

So I urge everyone on here to keep in mind that the best possible solution that will nearly guarantee you success is to see one of the doctors listed on this site, even if it means you have to fly out to see them, even if it means you have to spend a lot of money.

Wow Softie, and here I was all along thinking you were so smart.

Blood flow, having nothing to do with hormones, are you crazy? This is primarily what much of this is all about. T:E ratio, hormone feedback to the body, and/or prostate. Blood flow and glandular function for erection. Its all interconnected. Haven't you read the "Testosterone Syndrome". Where you been at kid, or what bed did you wake up on the wrong side of this morning?

And now you're also backing away from your Alpha Test, Diesel Test preaching of these supplements, and now saying it might not work.

Ok dude.

Our problems has nothing to do with the blood flow in penis. I train every other day, my blood flow is like a niagara falls, my penis size is normal but the time of reaching erection is much slower, nevertheless I feel completely abnormal, numb, and with a 1/3 of my real libido and vigour. I have a feeling that the problem begins at the back of my head. I feel as if H-P does not direct correct signals or there is something switched of further not allowing the proper reaction to begin. I think it is something wrong with brain 5 AR, oxyticine release, androgen insensitivity or whatever that affects brain signaling.

5th day on sustain alpha... i notice increased testicular size, a little more energy (i wake up in the morning without fatigue, and acne...
no sexual improvements

the odor of sustain alpha is nauseating...

thanks for the updates, way